A—sa

46

RBPORT OF IItOCEEDINGS OK THE CONEEKKNCE.

Mn. ANDERSON : Would you be satisfied with existing ships if they had 72 cubic feet and complied with all the other conditions ? Hon. W. M. HUGHES: No; my ideal is 120 cubic t.ct if it can be done; but if they cannot comply with that without making such structural alterations as are unreasonable, then I am prepared to wait for a given period. Mr. BELCHER : I am quite prepared to leave myself in the hands of the Minister in New Zealand with regard to the matter, if something is mentioned in the resolution with regard to the space being increased where it is possible to do so. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: If Mr. Hill will amend his motion by putting in a period at the end of which ships must come the other way about, that is to say. his resolution for two years —that until after two years, or any other period you like, il shall not apply where the sanitary at rangements are suitable, and that after that period they shall apply, then 1 will consider it. Mr. FERNIE: The only thing we can do is to protest against all retrospective legislation. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : 1 think'we had better leave that question out. Tin: CHAIRMAN : Sir William Lyne, can we vote on that resolution before we go? It seems for the moment as though we are not likely to get unanimity. Siu WILLIAM LYNE: I should like the original motion as it was altered. The CHAIRMAN : Sir William Lyne now says that on the whole as a matter of wording (the two resolutions really point to the same intention) he prefers the original motion as amended. I think we may say em behalf of the United Kingdom that we do not care which of the two is passed ; either would do for us. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON: Which is Sir Joseph Ward proposing? The CHAIRMAN : Sir Joseph is proposing this newwording, but Sir William prefers the original one. Siu JOSEPH WARD : I am quite prepared to accept the old one if unanimity can be got. Tin-: ( HAIRMAN : 1 gather that Sir William Lyne is in favour? lam afraid we do not carry you, Mr. Hughes, with us. lies. W. M. HUGHES: No. I understood most emphatically that every motion was to be voted upon. I asked the President about this yesterday—as to what had to be done in a case of voting when we were not unanimous. What do you say, sir? Tin: CHAIRMAN : If I had to nil,-, I should have said it had to be by delegation:;: that is to say, the Australian delegation, if not unanimous amongst themselves, would have to settle as between themselves which way they voted But I think that a dissentient member should have the right of recording his dissent. Sm WILLIAM LYNE: Certainly, and l was going to suggest that the last time we were here. I think the right should be reserved to any one of tiie delegation to express his dissent. The majority goes one way, that is the delegation; but an individual member should have the right to record his vote the other way. The CHAIRMAN : Yes; otherwise there is no method that I know of. Sir WILL! \M LYNE : Will you read the first resolution as amended ? The CHAIRMAN : "That the Governments of Aus"tialia and New Zealand, instead of imposing new con- " ditions involving structural alterations as regards cubic "and superficial space accommodation devoted to officers "and crew on vessels built prior to the enactment "of such conditions, will require only such existing " vessels as have accommodation which in the opinion "of the local authorities is in fact insanitary or un- " healthful." Sir WILLIAM LYNE : That is to say, " local "authority" means the Minister?

Hon. DUOALO THOMSON : Whatever authority ia fixed. Sn; WILLIAM LYNE : So long as it covers that, I am content. Tin: CHAIRMAN : Or "in the opinion of the " Minister," if you like. Mr. COX : It is quite clear that it is not the Court. Thk CHAIRMAN : Then the resolution goes on "To "amend the same so as to bring it into a sanitary and " healthful condition to the satisfaction of the local " authorities." Sir WILLIAM LYNE: You have my pencil alteration in ! Thk I'll All,'M AN : Yes, I have "in the opinion of "the local authorities" put in • Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : I have it "authority." Hun. W. \l. 11l QHES : 1 wish to vote against that. The CHAIRMAN : That will be recorded. The resolution was then adopted. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: My vote is recorded against thai : but what I want is to set down my reasons. Whether they can be taken down or not I do not know; but, if not, I shall furnish yon with my reasons. Shortly, why I dissent Tin: CHAIRMAN : Would it not be sufficient to say, " For reasons given in the record of the proceedings " ? Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Only just a short statement of my reasons. My reasons are that I think all ships should comply with all the required conditions ; but, if it can be shown that the structural alterations are unreasonable then, so far as cubic and superficial capacity is concerned, the ship might be exempted. But in the case of sanitary, hygienic, general, and other arrangements—no exemption should be made under any circumstances whatever. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON: We are not proposing that. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I want that set down. 8m WILLIAM LYNE: Mr. Hughes's vote or the minority vote should be recorded for the reasons given in the speeches made to-day. Sir JOSEPH WARD : Personally, I was going to say that the individuals of a delegation here, I think, with all due deference to those present, should not vote as individuals. They may in their speeches, of course, put their opinions on record. But, speaking for New Zealand, we are here as a joint delegation to represent our country; and it is our duty if we can possibly secure it, to have as a delegation unanimity. lam putting their sentiments as well as my own. We do not want to go ba.k to our country and say that two men voted one way and two voted another. Compromise is always essential in these matters; and we want to have it put to New Zealand that we have voted in a certain way unanimously with regard to these matters. So WILLIAM LYNE: And I would like to do that; but unfortunately I have not got such an unanimous team as has Sir Joseph Waid. Tin; CHAIRMAN : I quite appreciate that. But, in view of the fact that there is a strong difference of opinion, it would be best to adopt the plan of letting a dissentient delegate express his opinion. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : It does not matter what we say here; it can make no alteration. I do not propose to put my name to anything which I am not going to stand up for in the House. Mb, HAVELOCK WILSON : I am not in favour of it; 1 have never consented to the law being altered as it has been last year. I say it ought to have been made retrospective ; and I hold by that. Tin: CHAIRMAN : We cannot reopen the discussion now. Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON: I do not wish to do it but I am giving my vote. That is in accordance with what 1 have always held by, and I stand by it now.