47

A.—sa

RKPOItT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE f'ONFKHKNOE.

Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Hear, hear. I am not alone. Mr. DUNLOP : Well, I agree for the sake of unanimity but Ido not at all like it; lam simply agreeing in order to settle the matter; but I consider it is a Dad principle which we are embarking on. The CHAIRMAN : We know that you have done great violence to your feelings in agreeing to this com promise. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : I take it that it was decided that the provision as regards accommodation should apply only to existing vessels under certain conditions. We might now discuss what this accommodation is to be. Adjournment for lunch. The CHAIRMAN : Although we are not all here, I think the great majority of us are: and there- is one question we- might now settle, that is, about our meeting to-morrow, 1 have rather gathered from the remarks which have fallen from various members of the Conference that on the whole the feeling is against it, and that the members of the Conference as a whole are rather in favour of adjourning till Monday. I only want, of course, to do what is the wish of the majority. Sir JOSEPH WARD : I think we had better adjourn till Monday. The CHAIRMAN : Very well. Monday at 11.30. Now, gentlemen, Mr. Hughes has a point to bring forward with regard to the question of "accomodation." Hon. W. M. HUGHES: The point that I wish to bring under the notice of the Conference is, that, while we are quite familiar with the principle of accommodation for seamen, it is proposed in our Bill to make accommodation for officers; and in Clause 134 of our Rill The CHAIRMAN : Is that the old Bill? Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Our Bill, the Bill on which we were appointed to sit, Clause 134. Sir JOSEPH WARD : What is that in ? Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : It is in the Blue Book, at the end. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Our Bill is the Navigation and Shipping Bill of 1004 ; Clause 134 of that Bill says :— "The owner of every steamship regularly trading between "any port in Australia and any other port in Australia, "New Zealand, or Fiji, or British New Guinea, or the " South Seas shall (a) make, provision to the satisfaction "of the Superintendent for the adequate ventilation of "the officers' rooms, engine-room, and stokehole; (ft) "Provide for each officer, up to at least four, a separate " room having a separate entrance to the deck, and not " opening directly into the engine-room." I just wish to bring under the notice of the Conference the fact that that section exists, and that it will probably pass. There has been no evidence at all brought forward against it, excepting the kind of evidence that was brought forward against increasing the cubical capacity for seamen from 72 cubic feet to 120 cubic feet—that there is not sufficient room. Subject to such exemptions as seem proper in such a case, I take it that this clause will pass. That ought to be brought under the notice of the British shipowners. They may not have noticed it. It is a very necessary thing that accommodation for officers should, as far as possible, provide for separate rooms; and certainly these ought not to open directly into the engine-room. As to the other matters in* connection with officers I must deal with them under the headings "Manning," "Wages," and so on. I merely wish to bring this under the notice of the Conference. I do not know what the New Zealand Act savs on the matter . Mr. HISLOP : Practically the same. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : What does it say? Mu. MILLS : Clause 121 says :—" In all home-trade or " intercolonial-trade steamships the owner thereof— (a) " Shall make provision to the satisfaction of a surveyor " for the adequate ventilation of the officers' rooms, "engine-room, and stokehole; and also (6) Shall provide " for each mate and engineer, up to at least three, a

"separate room which does not open direct from the "engine-room, but has a separate entrance to the deck "otherwise than through the engine-room." Hon. W. M. HUGHES : We say "up to at least four" : that is practically a re-enactment of the provision of the New Zealand Act. There will be then uniformity as far as New Zealand and Australia are concerned. At present, New Zealand shipowners are compelled to comply with certain conditions which the Australians are not. I have nothing further to say on that head, sir. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : I do not suppose it is meant that we should discuss that; because if we are to discuss not only what will apply to Australian and British shipping and trade, but also what will apply to British trade in general, it will enlarge the discussion very much. Mr. Hughes has called attention to the matter, and that, no doubt, is desirable. HON. W. M. HUGHES: I did it because I thought the shipowners should know it was there. As the majority of the Conference has decided that the space accommodation is to remain as it is, so far as existing ships are concerned, subject to certain qualifications it may only apply to certain ships. Nevertheless, I thought it was right f hat attention should be drawn to the fact that it will apply to those. Mr. NORMAN HILL: It is directly opposed to the policy of the Imperial Act. The Imperial Legislature has never legislated with regard to the accommodation of officers. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I said that when I started. Mr. NORMAN HILL : We certainly could not agree that this policy is to be preferred to that of the Imperial Act. We believe that the policy of the Imperial Act has worked well : and we do not agree that it is desirable that we should change it. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I am not asking you to agree to anything. Mr. NORMAN HILL : If Mr. Hughes draws our attention to it, I think it should be on the Minutes that we are not in accord with the Colony on that point. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I quite accept that. I merely drew attention to it because I thought it proper that I should do so. Mr. NORMAN HILL: We are not discussing what is the proper accommodation for officers. We have said, and the policy of our Acts has always been, that that is a matter to be settled between the shipowner and his officers, and that there is no necessity for the State to interfere. We believe that policy has worked well, and that it should be left in that position. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : We do not leave these things to the shipowner and his officers, but the pernicious and " demnition " Government steps in and makes a certain regulation, Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON : I cannot agree with Mr. Norman Hill that the Imperial Act has worked satisfactorily. In the majority of ships I agree it has v...iked .satisfactorily, but still a good many complaints have been made by some officers as to their accommodation. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : The accommodation provided for some officers leaves nothing to be desired ; the accommodation for other officers leaves everything to be desired ; no doubt some gentlemen regard it as very satisfactory in both cases. 'The CHAIRMAN : That will appear on the record of our proceedings. Now, if we have nothing more on Hie question of accommodation, may we go to the next head, "Manning"? We have passed a resolution about manning, as to the limits within which that applies ; but there is one point I may mention. I am sorry Sir William Lyne is not here, as he has given notice of a motion as to this : " That no seaman should be per- " mitted to engage as A.B. on board any British ship who "cannot show that he is justly entitled to that rating." That is provided for in our Act by Section 58. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : It is not enforced, though it is provided for.