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RErORT OF PHOCEEDINQS OF THE CONFERENCE

Mu. COX : Have they decided that carrying cargo from Fiji and back is coasting in Australia? Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Yes. Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH : It must be taken in at a port in Australia. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : No; they often do the round trip. Coasting with us does mean carrying cargo, say, from Sydney to Fiji, going for sugar; and the sailors are paid coasting rates. Mr. COX : Would not that cover cargo being carried to England too? Run. W. M. HUGHES : No. Mn. COX : What is the difference? Sir JOSEPH WARD : Pardon me, I think you are partially right. What occurs is that the articles of the ship upon which men are engaged cover it. The men sign the articles, and they are to receive wages, say, of £7 or £fi a month, but the law in our country which the Chief Justice recently gave a decision upon Hon. W. M. HUGHES : You are confusing two things. It is the Arbitration Court of New South Wales that has decided that coasting within the meaning of the Award includes ships that trade from Sydney to Fiji, whether they come straight back or not. •Sir JOSEPH WARD: That is the Arbitration Court. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON: That is only for the pin pose of fixing an award for wages; it is not deciding what is coasting trade. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : It will never do to exclude the Fiji trade, for Australian sailors are engaged in it. Sir JOSEPH WARD : That is all covered. We do the same thing. I was certain before I gave notice of this motion, and I am more certain than ever since, that legally it cannot be done without legislation. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: I do not think we can, but we are desirous of making legislation. Mr. COX : May I ask, do von wish to make British ships that engage in the coasting trade and then go to Fiji conform to Australian conditions? Hon. W. M. HUGHES: If they went from Australia to Fiji with the intention of coming back—yes, if they did : but if they went to Fiji en route to some foreign port, no. Mr. COX : Supposing she went from Sydney to Fiji and then back to England ? Hon. W. M. HUGHES :To England ? Oh, no; oh, no. Sir JOSEPH WARD : There is a section in the New Zealand Act which I think would facilitate this resolution. We define in Section 75, subsection (b), the latter portion, we define clearly the matter of wages payable on a British vessel arriving in New Zealand and going anywhere up the coast: we define it very clearly : " That this section shall not apply to ships arriving from "abroad with passengers or cargo, but not trading in "New Zealand further or otherwise than for (he pur- " pose of discharging such original passengers or cargo in " New Zealand, and there shipping further passengers or "cargo lo be carried abroad." Now we fix definitely if they do engage in our waters, they have to conform to our local wages. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : You are making a distinction between discharge of original cargo. Certainly, that" is entirely different; that is not (lading at all within our meaning. Mn. BELCHER : The law does not go any farther than to protect the pure coasting trade. What I want to see done, if it is possible, is to protect the shipowners who have an immemse trade between Australia and New Zealand. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : In Sydney they have to pay Colonial rates when they are trading to Fiji. When they go to Ocean Island I think they do not.

Mb. LLEWELYN SMITH: I rather suggested that the stipulation in your Bill, Section 295 of the old Rill might be adopted. In the new one it says :"A ship "shall be deemed to engage in the coasting trade if she " lakes on board passengers or cargo at any port in " Australia to be carried to or landed or delivered at any ■ other port." Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Exactly the same. Mn. COX : I would rather have this form if you have no objection : "A vessel shall be deemed to trade if she " carries coastwise cargo or passengers embarked at one " Australian port which are discharged at another Aus- " tralian port." Sir WILLIAM LYNE : What does that mean—coastwise? Hon. W. M. HUGHES : The only thing is we should have to say coastwise means Mn. CON : My difficulty is, I do not see how far you want to go. You want to make trading with the Pacific Islands coasting; that is my difficulty. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON: May I point out this proposal does not affect that as I read it It is a vessel taking on cargo at one port in Australia and landing it at another. Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH : If Papua was deemed to be part of Australia it would come in. I read out the provisions of the Australian Bill which, it appears, is identical with the new Bill, and it seemed to me it was a very satisfactory wording. Sir WILLIAM LYNE: I would like Mr. Cox's definition read again. Mb. COX : What I mean is this, supposing a vessel is trading from one port of the Commonwealth to another, that is coasting trade. But I really do not seehow it can be coasting trade if she goes to Fiji or Tahiti and back ; why is that coasting trade ? Fiji or Tahiti is not part of the coast. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: It is determined by local conditions. " Coasting," after all, is only a term. The terminology of the locality must be considered. Our coastal companies trade direct to Fiji, and they pay the coasting rates. If it was a deep sea trade, they would pay lower wages. Mr. COX : My practical difficulty is this—supposing a ship is registered in England and goes to Australia, carries ogers and goes to one of the Australian ports, and then she goes to Fiji and back, is she to conform during the period she is on the voyage? Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I would like to be able to make her conform if necessary. Mb. COX : If Fiji was part of the Australian Commonwealth it would be perfectly clear. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: I see the difficulty. We have only the control of one end. Sm WILLIAM LYNE: We have other boats doing nearly all the Pacific trade, and they go to the Solomon Islands and the New Hebrides. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : The Solomon Islands and the New Hebrides do not pay coasting wages. Mb. COX : Are the vessels not registered in Australia ? Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Oh, yes. The only point is they have to compete. I saw Col. Burns quite recently, and he is complaining very bitterly against (he German Lines that are- running them very hard round the islands. He has to pay £7 for a seaman and £9 for a fireman, and a German vessel pays the men either £3 or £-1 10s. That is very hard, and the Germans are crowding us out. Sin WILLIAM LYNE: The difficulty seems to be that some of these islands—the Solomon Islands, don't they belong to the Germans ? Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Some of them. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : We could not control that trade ; we could not control a ship that goes to part of German New Guinea.