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REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE CONFERENCE

and Ido not like it hacked about. It is like an Act of Parliament] if you put a clause in when you are in Committee you generally find it is wrong afterwards. Mil. NORMAN II ILL: We are in the position of having to oppose Sir William's resolution as a whole. Some of it we have agreed to, but some of it we cannot agree to. Now, if we divide it, we can tell you exactly whore we can agree. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : It is a very simple matter for the Chairman to ask, if he likes, and then you can frame a resolution of what is desired. Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH : Following that suggestion, are we agreed that " vessels, wherever registered, " while trading on the coast " Hon. W. M. HUGHES s If you are going to define what tiading is, then we shall have to Sir WILLIAM LYNE: We shall have to define it later on. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : My friend won't say it is only carrying cargo. Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH: You would say cargo or passengers. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Yes. Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : Let us discuss that. Sir WILLIAM LYNE: I think that comes later. I think if you use the word "trading" in this resolution, leaving the definition as to what trading is for consideration afterwards, we shall get over the difficulty, and we do not mix up in this question the question of what trading is. We have quite enough to deal with here, Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : Are we agreed upon that? (Agreed.) Mb. LLEWELLYN" SMITH: Now (c) "to all " vessels, wherever registered, trading from one port "to another of that possession whilst within territorial " waters." Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : I think that is anticipating. Trading on the coast of Australia you have in the provisions of the subsection. Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : We have. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : Why not use the same words. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: I never use the same words. Mr. BELCHER : I think the question of territorial waters should be left out of it altogether. A vessel must go 3 miles off the shore. Hon. -W. M. HUGHES: But territorial waters does not merely mean 3 miles from the coast ; in some cases it means more. What I put these words in for was to show that we do not attempt to claim jurisdiction for any vessel if she had been trading on our coast and then set out for India or England and hack again. We could mil enforce our law, and we may as well say so. We can enforce it in Australia, but not elsewhere. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : That is a matter of course. Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH: As a matter of fact. Mr. Belcher, I do not think those words are wanted because (hey are covered: "To all vessels, wherever " registered, while trading from one port to another of " t hat possession." Hon. W. M. HUGHES : The only point is this that a vessel might go, for instance, say from Sydney to -lava. or from Fremantle to Java, ami she might conic- back again, and we might want (he laws of Australia enforced on her. She would not be trading from one port in the Commonwealth to another. Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : It would only, of course, be while she was trading from one port to another. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : What is the wording now. Mn LLEWELLYN SMITH : " (a) Vessels registered "in that possession whilst trading (herein: (b) vessels,

"wherever registered, whilst trading on the coast of the "possession; (r) vessels, wherever registered, while '(lading from one port to another of that possession." I think we might put that into two categories instead of three. Sir WILLIAM LYNE: It is all covered by my wording. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: There are three classes. Mb. LLEWELLYN SMITH: There are. But the definition between the second and third is between the habitual coaster and the incidental coaster. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Very well, 1 am quite agreeable to exercise subsection (6) and let subsection (c) cover the two. Mb. LLEWELLYN SMITH : That makes a very neat paragraph: —"That the law of any British posses- " sion which operates with regard to Australia and New " Zealand shall apply to vessels registered in those "Colonies respectively while trading therein, and to all " vessels, wherever registered, while trading from one "port to another of one of those Colonics." ll.in. DUGALD THOMSON: Now, are we anticipating by that the proposal by Sir Joseph Ward which follows ? Mb. LLEWELLYN SMITH : It has been impossible not to cover practically the ground covered by that resolution. _ Sib JOSEPH WARD: If you settle it in this resolution, so far as I am concerned I do not want to move my own. Sib WILLIAM LYNE: I think it is getting into a mess. We do not want to deal with the definition of the word "trading" in this resolution. Mb. LLEWELLYN SMITH : We have taken it out. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : You have used the word and left the definition for a separate resolution. Mn. LI.EWKLLYN SMITH: The point that stands over is to define the word "trading." I do not think We can get on without that. It may be- difficult for some of us to say whether we cordially accept this or have any reservations until we know what is to be included under "trading." Mb. COX : I suggest the resolution as to trading might be : —"A vessel shall be- deemed to trade if she "carries cargo or passengers embarked at one Australian "port which are discharged at another Australian " port." Mn NORMAN HILL: Is the word "carries" the right word, because an oversee vessel from this country which calls at two ports, but, does not dischai load cargo at the first port, carries cargo on the oversea voyage ? Hon. W. M. HUGHES: That is not coasting. Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH : You have an excellent definition in your old Australian Bill, part 7: "A ship "shall be- deemed to I Dgaged in the coasting trad,"if she takes on board passengers or cargo at any porl "in Australia to be carried to and landed or delivered "at any other port in Australia." Why cannot we take that? It is Section 295 of the old Bill.' Hon. W. M. HUGHES : There is only one amendment that will be required in that. That is perfectly satis factory to me except that as we are now dealing with the •"astinc trade, and Sir Joseph Ward has very properly pointed out that coasting trade with ns means carrying cargo or passengers between New Zealand, Australia.'anil the Islands of the Pacific, at any rate it means so with us, I do not think it would be advisable to scratch it out. It has already been decided in some of the courts that coasting means carrying cargo or passengers as far as Fiji. Mb. COX : From a port in the Commonwealth? 1 ... ', W .,.V.- HUGHES : From a port in the Commonwealth to Fiji and back or to New Zealand.