A.—sa

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RBPORT 01 PROOBBDINGS 09 TIIK OONFBRBI

Ron. DUGALD THOMSON : I do not think il does, because that latter part docs not free the master. As master he is not freed. II may free him .is owner, but not as master. Siu JOSEPH WARD: I desire to say that upon the understanding that it is not assumed that wi are com polled to legislate line lor line- with this document which is here, 1 do not want to take up further time by offering opposition to anything. Sir WILLIAM LYNE: I an, advised by my officers that it. would he en unwise thing to alter the law. Tin, CHAIRMAN : You cannot see your way to accept Ihe convention at the present moment? Sm WILLIAM LYNE i Not at the present moment. Tin; CHAIRMAN : In that case we had better pass no resolution. Sin WILLIAM LYNE: 1 would prefer not, because at the present moment it is a legal matter to some extent,' and I am advised that it is unwise to do it, so that I should be placed in a very invidious position if I gave my consent on behalf of Australia. Tin CHAIRMAN : We withheld our assent to these conventions until we had consulted the colonies first of all. At th, suggestion of the British delegate, a third meeting will he held to consider any amendments which may be proposed, so if we could get any suggestions from the colonies we could bring them forward at that third meeting. Siu WILLIAM LYNE : When will that take place? Tin: CHAIRMAN : The Belgian Government are to summon a meeting in the spring. There will be a third meeting held. We have not assented te this convention until we had the views of the colonies upon it. We havesent el along, niel now we know fairly well what the position is so far as the colonies are concerned. A third , m-eling will be held, summoned by the Belgian Government, some time this spring, and I should like to have any suggestions on the subject which can be brought forward then with regard to the convention. In the meantime I think we had better pass no resolution. Sm JOSEPH WARD : I think so. I shall be glad to communicate with you after my return to New Zealand. Sir WILLIAM LYNE: I think I shall very likely communicate before this Conference concludes. The CHAIRMAN : If possible we should like to have it, because they have promised to summon a Conference in the spring. I do not know what that means. Mu LLEWELLYN SMITH ;At this third meeting there will be apparently- the chance of considerins it furthe.i - * Tin CHAIRMAN : Perhaps you would like to know the countries which have assented to the- convention. They aie Germany, Belgium, Brazil, Chili, Cuba, the United States of America, Mexico, Roumania, Russia, and France. Mn. PEMBROKE : Considering our interests are very much larger, I think it would be nice if the colonies could sec their way to come into it. Tin CHAIRMAN: It is very desirable, no doubt, that we should have an international convention. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : I think I shall be able to let you know something more about it. Tin CHAIRMAN : Mow that Sir James Mackay has arrived, I think we can take Mr. Belche-r's motion ' Mr Belcher will explain it. ■»■ BELCHEB: I move, "That this Conference is opposed t.i the employment of Lascars, Coolies, Chinamen, or persons of any other alien race on any vessel "ownetl, registered, or chartered to trade in the Commonwealth or New Zealand." The object of the resolution is to try as far as possible to keep what I may term the blight ol the Asiatic as far away from Australia and New Zealand as may be. You are all aware that the policy of the Commonwealth of Australia is distinctively

white. That sentimcnt has been clearly pronounced in Australia. It has been expressed right throughout their recent legislation. New Zealand, although it has not spoken quite so loudly as Australia, certainly holds generally, I think, the same opinion—that u requires white people [or its country: in fact, it wants racepurity, and il also wants its vessels manned with white labour. There arc, I believe, certain vessels trading out of Australia, running pretty regularly between Australian ports and to Singapore and Calcutta and other places in the East, which are manned with the class of labour mentioned in the resolution. I regret very much to say that New Zealand is also troubled in a small degree with exactly the same complaint. There is a vessel owned by the Union Company which trades generally between New Zealand and Singapore and Calcutta. For some considerable time that vessel in that trade was manned with white labour. For some reason best known to the people who operate that company, the manning was changed from that of white to black.' ami she now runs regularly between the countries mentioned manned with black labour. We have not in our legislation anything restrictive as against the shipowner from employing aliens of any description. As I say. Australia is moving in that direction, and I think it highly essential that exactly the same thill"' should be done in New Zealand. 'The reasons for excluding this class of labour are very numerous. 'They have- been already very ably expressed by Sir William Lyne, and, generally speaking, we look' upon these people as undesirables, and that where Australian and New Zealand ships are concerned, where the profits accruing to the people who run those businesses are all practically derivable from the white population of those countries, we consider that the white community there who are desirous of following the sea as an occupation should have an opportunity in that direction as an outlet tin their energies. There is no telling when once this policy is commenced where it is going to stop. It might he extended to the coasting trade. In fact, we know man} years ago in Australia, there was a certain shipping linn (here which had (he whole of its fleet manned with Chinamen. Public sentiment got so strong in connection with the matter (hat (hey had lo dislodge the whole lot of them and deport them out of the country. There was no grad mil removing of them in that case. They simply had io do it in one act. That is the sentiment which prevails in Australia and New Zealand with regard to the employmen eif these people. I do not know what justification there is for employing them, except that they are cheap, for they arc in a great many instances unreliable. It is the matter of cheapness, I think, which induces the employment of these people, because I know that when the vessel to which 1 have referred was manned by white labour under New Zealand conditions, the wage bjll for ihe seamen and firemen was about £lf>6 a month; with i In employment of Lascars, the wage bill now, although then- are double the number of men carried, is somewhere about £60 a month, making a difference of about KICK) a month in the wages with double the number of in.ui carried. Apart from that altogether, both Australia .mil New Zealand have legislation in this respect, that a bond has to be given of £100 a head for the safe return ot these people on board their ships. That, to my mind, is very repugnant indeed, and I cannot help saying that it appears to me, from my knowledge of this subject, that these people are in a servitude which no white person m the world would possibly submit to. 'Thev have no liberty of any kind. Contracts are made with these people for lengthy poii,,ds. and they are practically the property ol the shipowner from the- time they contract with them until the contract is finished. As [say there is species of servitude about this kind of labour which close!) borders on what I can only term slave. \ I ■~., very phased to have heard Mr. Hughes the other day express ih,- opinion, and express it very pronouncedly that the ( ommonwealth is opposed to employment of this class ol labour iii any kind of British ship, and I was also very pleased to hear hi,,, sav that the Commonwealth Government was hardly likely under the circum stances to grant a subsidy to anv vessels, with regard to mails ~i otherwise, which carried this class ~f labour I sincerely trust that the Australian Government will insist upon that principle. wi n" 1 WILLIAM LYNE : V aj depend upon it they ■Mu. RKLCIIKR; And I hope that, New Zealand will adopt exactly the same- practice-. It appears to me that representations to the people who employ this class of abour are orach™, ly nsele-ss. They are on the increasethere is CO doubt abuut Hut. The figures show conclusively