109

A.—sa

RBPOIIT 01' PROCEEDINGS OF THE OOKFBBBNCB.

that this class of labour is on the increase in I he various British vessels. We in New Zealand, at any rate, want to kee-p New Zealand lor Ihe New /.inlanders, or for the Rritish at any rale, as far as we possibly can. and. as 1 said before, it is highly desirable that we should have some restrictive legislation on our statute-book pro hibiting tin- employment of this class of labour. There is a moral side to this question also. It is a well-known fact that these people cannot have social intercourse with the people of the- countries where they trade, and I say the moral aspect of the question should weigh with us very considerably indeed, so tar as the employment of these people is concerned. Race purity. I maintain, so far as our countries are concerned, is a thing which we intend to insist upon, and all the' undesirables that we can possibly exclude from the country are going to be kept out. As a matter of fact, they are kept out of the country; but, unfortunately, they an- allowed to .on board our ships, taking the place- of white men who arc willing to work and who, perhaps, havewives and families dependent upon them, and who are desirous of bringing their families up under decent con ditions. They are displaced, and the cheap, and in desirable Lascars and Coolies are in their place. TheJ are not in niy opinion, speaking as a practical seaman, reliable men at sea. and I sincerely trust thai it will never he my fate t■. be on board one of the liners if an\ accident should happen there, and to be at the mercy of assistance from the Lascars and Coolies. Only a few weeks ago, on the voyage from Australia here, I saw an exhibition of their ineptitude which was appalling. A certain performance has to be done before a vessel enters the Suez Canal. Tin- boat was manned by five Lascars, and they were unable to do what was required, with the result that four white quartermasters had (o go down and do what the l.ascais were unable to do. I merely mention this as an instance of their unreliability. At an;, rale', i he- great and broad principle involved in connection with this matter is this: are our Rritish ships Io he manned with Britishers, or are they to become the dumping ground lor the surplus population of the Kast ': It has been staled here. ,-i \ truly, that the mercantile marine may possibly at some time be the recruiting ground for our fighting forces. As a matter of fact, a good deal of activity is being displayed, both in Australia and in New Zealand, in the direction of trying to form a naval reserve. It is in operation at the present time, and there are a considerable number of Now Zealanders, whom I know personally, who have become members of that reserve. As I said In-fore, if the extension of this policy of the employ ment of the Lascar and Coolie is going to take place. then you can say good-bye to any possibility of es talilishing your reserve, and you will also not have a class of people which will be useful to us in the day when trouble may c.ime along. I certainly trust that the Conference will pronounce with no uncertain sound that we believe in a white Australia and a white New Zea land, and thai this class of labour should be excluded from the vessels. Mn. MILLS : May I say a few words on this matter? 'The companv with which I am connected has been referred to by Mr. Belcher. IMo not want to prolong the discussion, but 1 think 1 should say a few words, although I may say af the outset that I think, as put by Mr. Belcher, it is purely a local New Zealand matter, and is not a suitable thing for this Conference to come to ,i resolution upon. He asks us Io legislate for Australia and New Zealand, which it is beyond the province of this Conference even to make a recommendation upon. I am not here Io defend coloured labour in any way as regai.ls the Australian and New Zealand trade; in fact, there is no stronger supporter of white labour than myself. I look upon all thai has been said in that direction from a sentimental point of view with favour, and I am a believer in it. Mr. Belcher has referred to one steamer trading from New Zealand, which formerly had a whilecrew, and after sonic experience in that direction was supplied with a Lascar crew, which he says is not so efficient I can only say that although he is right in say ing thai there is an economy in employing a Lascar crew as against a white cn-w directly, in tin shape of wages. there is a eery great eleal more in the way of efficiency. I'lic reason why B Lascar er.-w was put in was because the white men were not allowed by the authorities to do any wink in the port of Calcutta, ami as often as not a considerable proportion would be unlit for work at sea ill hot weather. 'The efficiency of the ship was very much impaired. K was more for (hat reason than for any other that Lascars were substituted for a white crew.

Sii: WILLIAM LYNE: Where was that? Mil. MILLS: In a vessel trading from New Zealand to Calcutta. Mr. Belcher has said that if the thin end of the wedge is introduced it is only a matter of time for aliens to be introduced into the coasting trade, hut that is impossible; there is a. manning scale which would make it impossible. I do not like to say SO it does not do to publish these things far and wide but our limited experience is that under many conditions the conduct of these coloured men is not only exemplary, but com pares more than favourably with the conduct of while crews under similar conditions. Under very living circ stances with regard to work and weather we cannot always rely upon white crews being lit for their work. either from their physical conditions or from their own fault. I merely make these remarks by way of explain tion, as I have been referred to. As I say. 1 indorse all that Mr. Belcher has said with regard to the desirability of confining the employment on vessels in the coasting trade in the colonies to our own countrymen. Sin WILLIAM LYNE: I entirely concur in the lion, anil will support it if it goes to a division. 'The only two objections which I have heard raised with regard to the employment of white men instead of coloured men are these : one- is that which has been let.'lied to i.\ Mr. Mills, that, not when fhe ship is at sea hut when the' ship is ill port, and calls at a poll, there u some) nne-s difficulty ill getting the men on board again much greater difficulty Ihan there is so far as Lasers are concerned; more difficulty than there is with other coloured people- also, but particularly the Lascars. There nun lie some little trouble ill thai regard, but 1 certainly think that if the men become more wedded to their ships and mine- satisfied with their conditions, that will lessen verj much. Personally, I certainly think that if I was in any trouble, or the ship was in any trouble, I should feel much safer if we had a white Rritish crew than if we had a crew of coloured men. As regards the stokehold and the climate. 1 know that that has been raised many times as the reason win coloured men should he employed in the tropics: and the vessel which has been referred to. trading from New Zealand to Calcutta, perhaps raises tne question of their not being able to work in the stoke hold. I have never heard the question raised except with regard to the stokehold. We have a good deal of traffic, anil many ships, between I hina and Australia, ill which they employ Chinese. 1 forget the nan f the company, but the "Eastern" is one of the ships, and there are many. 1 am told it is the K. _ A. Company, and the China Steam Navigation Company. I think there- is a great deal too much made out of the assertion that whitemen cannot do their work wherever a black man can do it. We know perfectly well that men-of-war in the tropics do not employ black men. even when steaming af a higher rate of speed, and the- white men can do the stokehold work. In the ships of the "Archer" class which came out to Australia, which are the very worst so far as the ventilation of the stokehold is concerned, white men did the work. If that is so, and if in every other regard the- white men can do the work Germans can do the work why not white Englishmen? 'The Nord Deutsche! Lloyd do not employ black men, and they do not employ oriental people to do the stokehold work. Under all these circumstances I certainly feel thai there is no reasonable objection to carrying a motion of this kind, which certainly does express the sentiment of Australia. Siu JOSEPH WARD ; I am very proud of the con dition of shipping affairs in New Zealand, and I am not saying so for the purpose of paying a compliment to those responsible for the- control of the ships trading around our coast. All the steamers which belong to New Zealand employ none but white people, with the one exception referred to by Mr. Belcher; and as a country we are strongly opposed to the system of the employment of Lascars or Chinese or coloured people upon our ships. Il is only clue lo those responsible for the control of the great Cllinn shipping line' which trades to and from Ne-w Zealand, as well as its coadjutor, the Huddart Parker line of steamers which hade lo our country, t'> say (hat they have voluntarily, without pressure from the Government, maintained all along whilecrews on board their steamers. Our country is very proud of it. and I think it is only fair to say "il behalf of my colleague who is associated with Mr. Belcher and myself, Mr. Mills, the head of one of the great steamship companies, there, that the country itself has so far clone nothing els.' but approve the spontaneous and voluntary efforts made in that direction by that organisation. Years ago we stipulated, in a contract where we gave a