A.—sa

112

HKI'OKT OF I'ROCEEDINQS OF THE CONFERENCE.

ships, because you cannot possibly object to an English red ship going from Calcutta, and trading regularly between Calcutta and Australia, with a Lascar crew. Sin WILLIAM LYNE: Yes, we can; we can stop them by making them pay treble wages. Sin JAMES MACKAY : 1 do not think that is possible. Sin WILLIAM LYNE : When they get into our waters we will deal with them. Tin 1 HAIRMAN : 'The case put is where they are engaged in Calcutta. 'The contract is not made in your Sir WILLIAM LYNE : That very point comes in on the question I asked Mr. Uertram Cox in reference to Fiji. When they take on a crew to go to Fiji, we can deal with them when they leave our waters; and if they make a breach of what we tell them to do, we can deal with them when they come back, and so we can with a vesse-l going to India. Sir JAMES MACKAY : H cannot he the intention of the Commonwealth to prevent a vessel belonging to India to take a cargo down to Australia and bring a cargo back to Calcutta! SlB WILLIAM I.VNK: It is the intention of Ausnalia, if she can, to prevent the- employment in our waters of coloured people at all. Mu. CON : Wherever engaged? Sin WILLIAM LYNE: Vis; we are dealing with ....■an going ships as well. Tin. CHAIRMAN : 'That is a question of international la w-. Sm JAMES MACKAY : Sou will not allow a Herman ship to come into your waters either? i Siu WILLI AM LYNE: Oh, yes, we do; this refers to c oolies. Siu JAMES MACKAY : 'This says aliens "or per- " sons of any other alie-n rs Sm WILLIAM LYNE: I do not want to delay this. I have slated exactly what our spirit is. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : What your spirit is! Noil cannot Speak for Australia in that respect. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: Do you lay down the principle. Sir James, that a vessel is perfectly justified in carrying a crew belonging to either of the countries between which she trades: for instance, that if she trades between Australia and China, she should carry either Australians or Chin.se, which ever she prefers; if 'die' trades between'here and Manilla, she can carry either Knglishmeii ... natives of the Philippines, and so on': l>.. you lav ilow n thai, principle ' Sm JAMEB MACKAY : Yes; 1 do not see how you can get out of it. ll.is. W. M. HUGHES: Logically, no doubt,, that is a \i l \ difficult position to assail. Tin i HAIRMAN : As a matter of international law it is absolutely unassailable. Sir JAMES MACKAY: Vou cannot get out of it. Otherwise, you prevent any Australian-owned ship trading to the East. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: 'The only point is this, thai iin Rritish shipowner, in very main eases, uses the natives of those countries, not because they are natives of those countries, but because they are cheaper than the natives of other countries; cheaper, f.n instance, than the natives of Australia. Sm JAMES MACKAY: 'They may be cheaper per head, but they will probably work out just as expensive. Hon. W. M. HUC I IKS : I do not, think so. Siu JAMES MACKAY : I can speak from some experience. 'That is the- ease in our ships. lies. W. M. HUGHES; The evidence- we took is certainly against that.

Sir WILLIAM LYNE : I think it is very likely that this matter may be decided in connection with Chinese cie-ws. 'There have been great complaints with regard to those two lines of ships which run from Hong Kong down lo Sydney, anil which sometimes do coasting trade. Tin. CHAIRMAN : To say that the natives of Hong Kong should not b. allowed to man ships which trade between Hong Kong and any other port in the world seems to me to be an infringement of international law. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : I think we have decided that, so far as Australia is concerned, when we are dealing with the coasting trade', we shall do what we like. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : In the coasting trade, \ es. Siu WILLIAM I.VNK: What is the coasting trade? Suppose a ship goes from Brisbane down to Sydney, that is coasting trade. ll.in. DUGALD THOMSON : N... Sm WILLIAM I.VNK: If she takes cargo? Hon. DUGALD 'THOMSON : If she takes cargo, yes. Tin CHAIRMAN : 1 do not think it is necessary for us to enter into that, because we have already said that, with regard to the coasting trade, you can make any regulations you like I think you have had rather favourable resolutions carried with regard to that, and therefore I should not reopen iL Sin WILLIAM LYNE: I do not want to say any more about it. Sir JAMES MACKAY: I should strongly urge yon. in your own interests, not to pass this resolution. Sm WILLIAM LYNE: We know what, our own interest is, you know. Sn: JAMES MACKAY i Vou place your own ships under a disability, and they will not be able to engage in any trade between Australia anil the Blast. _ If you do pass tie- resolution, I would strongly urge you to put it in ol her terms. Sm WILLIAM LYNE: I am not speaking about the wording of this resolution. I think it goes too far. Siu JAMES MACKAY: It is very objectionable thai the Commonwealth and New Zealand should use language of this soil in a resolution passed formally. Sm WILLIAM I.VNK: Vou have no objection to moderate the language. Mr. Belcher? Mu. BELCHER: I have said that I am prepared to erase the words "Lascars. Coolies, and Chinamen," and substitute the words "coloured people." Snt JAMES MACKAY : They are equally objectionable. Mil. BELCHER : So far as the objection is concerned. 1 can assure vou that whatever e bjection the Colonial Office, or the Foreign Offie:e. or the Tndia Office may have with regard lo the way we- express ourselves here, they are no more- offended in that respect than we are in Australia and Ne-w Zealand in seeing our white men standing on the beach unal.le to get employment because black fellows have got it. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : May I point out to Mr. Belchei that as his proposal is the employment of Rritish seamen, why not put it in that way, and cast no reflection which may he awkward for the- 'rntlia Office or for the British Government. All he is proposing is tin- employment -'f Rritish so.mien. Sm JAMES MACKAY : Australia is very much indebted to India in the way of trade: India 'has taken a very large an nt of timber from Australia. Sir WILLIAM LYNE: I am not sure that that is a very good thing for Australia. Sm JAMES MACKAY : You need not sell it. Sm WILLIAM I.VNK: WY an- sending too much timber away.