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A.—sa

RRPORT 01'' I'KOCEKDINOS OF THE CONFEHKNCK.

Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH : We could not assent to the motion as at present phrased. Thi CHAIRMAN : No. It is too ambiguous. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: What I wanted to say was this: that if it applies only to vessels 0wn..1. registered, in chartered to trade in the Commonwealth and New Zealand, ii is quite unnecessary, because it has already he en conceded here in the fullest possible way that we have the power to make laws for ourselves in this or in mi) other respect. Now. as to whether we should ask this Conference to affirm the expediency of making laws. I submit we an not here for that purpose at all. If there be a very good and sufficient international or Imp.'rial reason why this should mil he done, no cloubl you your self, or the representative of the India Office here, would let us know it without more ado. Rut I take it, that if Mr. Belcher's resolution merely applies to those vessels that are trading on the coast, within the meaning of the resolution already agreed to. then it is not necessary. If it means something more than that. 1 should be very glad indeed t.i support il. in spite of what my fiieiiii. Mr. 'Thomson, has said. Mr. 'Thomson has an idea that we are to In limited by the recommendation of the Royal ('ommission. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : No. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Now, thai is not s,, at all. 'The recommendations of the Royal Commission only incidentally arise here, and because we there said that certain things shall only apply to New Zealand and the Commonwealth, it does not follow that here we may not say that it would be a good thing if a principle were enforced on the British mercantile marine generally. I do not wish to labour the epieslion at all ; but I do think it would be a good tiling if Rritish seamen were employed, wherever that is possible, in place of Lascars, Coolies, or Chinamen. A very large number of vessels t lading from the Commonwealth to places oversea do .any whole coloured clews -the- _, and A. Company, the China Steam Navigation Company, the B. I. boats, the Calcutta i.oats —nearly all carry coloured crews: and it would l.c a very much better thing foi us if they .allied Rritish cr.-v.s. If this resolution of Mr. Belcher. is confined to the Commonwealth and New Zealand I should he inelincl to rote for its withdrawal. I would not vote against it. of course, but it is only saving the same thing twice. But if he will make it applv generally, 1 shall certainly support it. although I am quite free to admit that if the Rritish representatives hen- if yon yourself, representing the Government say that we ought not even to express a pious hope that the British Govern ment might see their way to favour this, then I shall say no more, liecause. of course, if the Government have made up their minds on this matter, no recommendation from us could do anything unless it were unanimous. which, of course, I readily concede it would not then be I should like you, therefore, sir. to ask Mr. Belcher for nially how far he intends (his re-solution lo apply. 'Tin: CHAIRMAN I understand Mr. Belcher to intend that it should apply beyond the limits of the home waters of New Zealand and the Commonwealth. Mb. BELCHED : Vis: that is my intention. The CHAIRMAN : And that is vour Interpretation of your motion '! Mr. BELCHER : Yes. Sir WILLIAM LYNE: Do I understand that you would say that the Imperial Government must not emplov Lascars in Indian waters' Mn. BELCHER: No; not at all. I have already referred to one case where I think the stoppage of the employment of Lascar labour is highly desirable, that is in vessels trading from Australia regularly to Singapore •"" l Calcutta. I have a , ase in my mind where a steam vessel cam.- to New Zealand not long -~ r_ with a ear f guano from on,- of the outlying islands. I believe that vessel ran two ,„• three cargoes there to the detriment of New Zealand vessels, and not only to their detriment, but it practically ran vessels sailing from Australia out of the trade altogether. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : That is not what I wanted to get at. If this is to apply only to certain places you must put it in the- resolution, otherwise- it will apply everywhere. I agree with you that there are certain plae'es

where' ii is desirable that coloured labour should not be employed, if we can so get it agreed to. hut I cannot think that we can prevent the Imperial Government employing coloured labour all over its dominions. 'Tin: CHAIRMAN : Unless we ire prepared to give- up India, and all places where we have coloured subjects, it would he impossible. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: I will suggest to Mr. Belcher e.n elilir.it ion which he might agree to. lie names Lascars. Coolies, and Chinamen: what he really means, of course, is coloured labour; he does not bother whether thev .in- Lascars, Coolies, or Chinamen. I quite agree with Mr. 'Thomson thai there is no good purpose to be served by emphasizing this matter, ami if Mr. Belcher persists in his timi. which 1 certainly shall not take exception to. he should withdraw those words "Lascars. "Coolies, and Chinamen," and substitute the w.u.ls " coloured labour." Mn. BELCHER : I am quite willing to allow tin- words "coloured labour" to be substituted. 'Tin: CHAIRMAN : There is no substantial difference there. 'Tin- whole point is whether this is proposed as a resolution governing legislation within the home waters of the Commonwealth and New Zealand, or whether it is intended to be applied all over the Empire. Me. BELCHEB : N... 'Tin: CHAIRMAN : Or beyond territorial waters. Mn. BELCHER : It is staled here, "any vessel owned. "registered, or chartered to trad,- in the Commonwealth " or Ne-w Zealand." 'Thk CHAIRMAN : If you mean trailing within the territorial waters then it is absolutely unnecessary, and outside that we could not possibly accept il. Sir.lames M.nkav will speak on the subject. Sm JAMES MACKAY: I do not think I have- very much to say. It is unnecessary for me to go into the question of whether Lascars or Europeans are the better Bailors. That has been thoroughly veil threshed out in another committee, th,- report of which I think you have before you. Rut I would strongly urge this Conference not to adopi ~ resolution which is worded as this resolution is worded. It is a great reflection upon 2(10 or .(Hi millions of the Kin_'s subjects, who are just as loyal, just as law abiding, just as industrious, just, as sober, and just as good citizens -is we are ourselves I should like to point out le. Mr. Belcher (hat if this resolution is adopted it would place- vessels belonging to Australia under a serious disability. No vessel belonging to Australia, according to what Mr. Belcher said, would be able to go to Calcutta. Singapore, or China except with a European crew. Sir WILLIAM I.VNK : Co from where' Sir JAMES MACKAY: From Australia —a vessel owned in Australia. He proposed that no vessel owned or regist, i,d in Australia or chartered to trade, there Tin: CHAIRMAN : Tt might he a Rritish ship. S,n JAMES MACKAY : v.. Sm WILLIAM LYNE; I do not think under our laws she would be allowed to go away without a white crew. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : Oh. yes, if she was going .nit of our wafers. Sir WILLIAM I.VNK: When she leaves the Australian coast I do not think she- would be allowed to go Without a v hlte crew not if we could stop it, at any rate. Sm JAMES MACKAY: Surely, an Australian ship going up to Calcutta, an Australian owned ship, can sign on a crew in Calcutta anel trade between Calcutta and other places. I lure is no law to the contrary. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : If we could stop it, we would. Sir JAMES MACKAY : If you did stop „. what I would like to point out is that you would pi,,,,- vour own ships under a great disability. Sir WILLIAM I.VNK ■ I do not agree there, at all. to JAMES MACKAY : You drive a trade, which is earned on now by vessels owned in Australia, to other