A.—sa

114

REI'OKT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE CONFERENCE.

in their own countries with regard to trade within their own jurisdiction, we will discuss it with pleasure, and will do our best to point out why we think in many respect their laws are very impolitic. 1 suggest that the subject of the motion is not one to be discussed here. Sir JOSEPH W' Mil) : I really think yon might sup port this, with one further suggestion which I will submit to Mr. Belcher, who, I understand, is favourable to the alteration : "That this Conference recognises the right "of the Commonwealth and New Zealand to limit or "exclude the employment of specified classes of persons "on any vessel owned, registered, or chartered to trade "in the Commonwealth or New Zealand." Mr. COX : That dues not deal with the ground. It would enable them to put it on colour pure and simple. 1 had not quite finished what I had to say, but I will be as brief as possible. 'There is no objection to the exclusion of coloured persons otherwise than on the ground of colour from the ships which are engaged in the coasting trade of the Commonwealth or New Zealand, or in any either conditions where the Colonial regulations under the law apply. That is agreed. But His Majesty's Govern ment are trustees for enormous numbers of coloured people, and the Colonial Office cannot agree to the exclusion of Rritish subjects of any race only on the ground of colour on vessels which are not amenable to the Colonial regulations. That is to say, if a vessel goes from Calcutta t.. Australia, engaging her crew in Calcutta, we cannot agree that Australian conditions should be applied to that . rew simply because the vessel goes backwards and forwards between Sydney and Calcutta. Sir JOSEPH WARD : You can support the resolution as I have amended it. Sir WILLIAM IW NK : What about the wage test Mr. COX : The contract is not made in Australia. You can do this. You can make it an offence for that vessel to come into Australian waters a second time if she has not paid Australian rates of wages the last time she was there. Sin WILLIAM LYNE : 'That is what I said. Mr. COX : I know; but if that is going to be put higher than as regards persons engaged in Australia that runs us, in regard to foreign ships, up against the obligations of international comity, and with regard to British ships we should have very seriously to consider whethei we should allow that Act or whether we- should not have to disallow it, however serious the conseejuences might be. I wish lo speak quite plainly. I recognise that Australia has a right to do it. Sra WILLIAM LYNE: Have not we already passed resolutions which apply to Australian waters regarding thequestion of wages? Mu. COX : As to vessels registered in Australia and engaged on the coasting trade, I am not dealing with them ; 1 am dealing with a vessel registered in Calcutta which engages an Indian crew and goes to and from Sydney with a cargo, backwards and forwards, whose articles are signed in Calcutta on Calcutta conditions. Those are the cases where I say Australia cannot interfere. Sib WILLIAM LYNE : We can interfere with them in another way. Mr. COX : You will have to do it by legislation. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : No. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : I will ask Sir William Lyne this : Would he not raise great objection if any of the dependencies of the Empire were to exclude from their ports, or to inflict heavy penalties upon, Australian vessels manned by Australian crews? If so, he cannot expect other parts of the Empire to assent to the same infliction of penalty or refusal to allow ships to enter which are manned by the crews of that portion of the Empire. We are going beyond our sphere altogether in that. I think he would be the strongest objector to anv such treatment of Australia in that regard. When we are within our own waters it is a different matter. We have got our rights, and we can deal as we choose with those vessels within our own jurisdiction. But I would like to correct a statement made by Mr. Hughes as

regards the holding back of the celebrated six hatters being due to the language test under the Commonwealth Act. The exclusion of those hatters was not due to that. It was because they were under contract conditions. I did not wish that statement to go uncontradicted. It was under the contract conditions that they were held, conditions which are now changed by an amendment of my own. The Prime Minister, Mr. Deakin, objected to any mention of colour in that very amendment. Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON : With regard to the ques tiem of Lascars and Chinamen, before I say what I want to say may I ask the representative of the India Office a question or two? I would like to ask him whether there is any restriction as to the latitudes in which Lascar- are employed ? Sir JAMES MACKAY" : Yes, there is. Mn. HAVELOCK WILSON : Would you mind telling me what is the restriction in that respect? Tin: CII AIRMAN : 38° N. Mu. HAVELOCK WILSON: That is t,, say, Rritish ships are not allowed to employ Lascars in a higher latitude than 38° N. ? Sir JAMES MACKAY : Except firemen and stewards. They are not allowed to employ deck hands. That is for the- protection of the Lascars. Mn. HAVELOCK WILSON : May I ask this? How do you manage with the deck hands who are on ships coming to England ? Sir JAMES MACKAY : If they are proceeding further North than 38° N". they must pay off their Lascars and transfer them to another ship. Mi:. HAVELOCK WILSON : But if they are not allowed to be employed in a higher latitude than 38° N., how is it they ire allowed to conn- on ships to the United Kingdom ? Captain CHALMERS: It is 38° N. in the western part of the North Atlantic. The British Islands are not in that portion of the North Atlantic. Mu. HAVELOCK WILSON : Let me get this point out. 1 would like to ask tin- representative of the India Office why they have a regulation to say they shall not be employed in a higher latitude than 38° north or south, .mil yet they allow them to come on ships to the United Kingdom, which is 50° N. Sir JAMES MACKAY : 38° N. in tin North Atlantic is very much colder than 38° here. Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON : That is news to me. Sir JAMES MACKAY: The Board of Trade considered that, and the shipowners entirely agreed thai 38° N. in the- North Atlantic is too .old for Lasers Me. HAVELOCK WILSON : It is news to me that SB< N. in the North Atlantic is colder than 50° elsewhere. May I ask if that applies lo south latitude' Captain CHALMERS : No, I do not think so. Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON : Is there no limitation at all? The CHAIRMAN : I want you to speak to the resolution. Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON : I am going to. Tin; CHAIRMAN: New Zealand and th,- Commonwealth arc not 38° N. nor !50° N. This is confined to vessels registered or owned in New Zealand and the- Com monwealth, or charter.-.I to trade there. .Mu- HAVELOCK WILSON : Before they can get to New Zealand they may have to go into a 'much hit_her latitude than 38 c . 6 Thk CHAIRMAN : I know; but this resolution would not affect it at all. Mb. HAVELOCK WILSON: 'That is the point I wanted. However, we will leave it at that. I have enough information for my purpose. With regard to Lascars and Chinamen, there is a good deal of cant talked about this matter. It has been said in the House