154

A.—sa

REPORT OF PISOCKKDINGS OF THE CONFERENCE.

Sm WILLIAM LYNE : Mr. President, I suppose Sir Joseph Ward will be here presently, but I am going to move an amendment to the first resolution, and also to some of the others —the fourth and the last. The CHAIRMAN : Have you a copy of your amendment, Sir William. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : Yes, I am going to propose striking out all the words "obligations imposed by any " Treaties which arc now binding on Australia and New " Zealand respectively, or to which they may hereafter ■adhere," and inserting other words so that it will read : " That it be recommended to the Australian and New " Zealand Governments in any future merchant shipping " legislation to insert an express provision safeguarding " the possibility of any interference by any Treaty rights, " unless those rights have been expressly concurred in by " the- Colonies." Mil. COX : That is the position now. Sir W ILI.IAM LYNE : What position does the resolution take up ? Tin: CHAIRMAN : I think we cannot get on with that before Sir Joseph Ward cornea; but perhaps we might get on with Mr. Hughes's resolutions. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: Would you let me make a prefatory re-mark in reference to a matter which calls for sonic notice ? The CHAIRMAN : What I am suggesting now is— Sir Joseph Ward is not here, and therefore it is rather awkward te; deal with the resolution affecting the treaties regarding X™ Zealand in his absence—so I was going to suggest you should move your resolution now. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : The resolution is : "That it "be a suggestion to the Board of Trade to take into im- " mediate consideration the necessity of including in the " regulations for examination for officers the following " subjects directly relating to navigation : The practice "and theory of plain and spherical trigonometry, geo- " metry, geography and meteorology, naval architecture, " and the structure of vessels. The addition of the follow- " ing subjects to examination on general knowledge. The "English language, grammar and composition, a know- " ledge of at least one foreign language." Well, Mr. President, these resolutions have been suggested to me by the Merchant Service Guild of Australia, and they have for. their object the raising of the status of officers, and incidentally by raising the standard of examinations, and including Knglish grammar and composition, making that essential, to confine it as far as possible to persons who speak the English language fluently. Practically, of course, the tendency will be to confine it purely to British subjects. W'ell, now, as far as that phase of it is concerned, I most emphatically declare that it is a most necessary reform. Your own legislation recently passed has done something in that direction. The expression of opinion now made in all directions is to the effect that it -is a very desirable thing that "British ships should be manned by British officers and British seamen. I understand that the examination in other respects to which officers have to submit themselves to obtain certificates is not at all difficult. It ought to be made more difficult for the purpose of insuring a good class of man coming up and a good class of man being employed. Of course, I know very well that nothing that here can be said or done will really affect the position until some increase in the remuneration to officers is made. I suppose everybody h. i. knows the conditions under which officers work; but when you come to consider that a man gives five years of his time practically for nothing, that he spends a good deal of money in addition to that, and that he may, if he is fortunate, then get £5 a month or five guineas, or if he is taken on a mail steamer he will get, after he has been perhaps sixteen years at sea, and holds an extra master's certificate, £6 a month—l realise however that we cannot do anything here to remedy this state of things, but we may do something by amending the syllabus, to insure that those who have certificates are quite competent men, because there is no sort of doubt at all, that the low rate of remuneration does tend to exclude a vary large number of desirable men, and to divert them to other channels of employment, and that therefore there is a very great danger of men getting certificates who are not so competent as they should be. I move this resolution standing in my name, and I should like to hear from Captain Chalmers, who knows this from the stand-

point of an expert, whether he has any objection to urge against it. Captais CHALMERS : The view of the department has always been that as this is a compulsory certificate by statute, the examination should be confined as far as possible to securing that the man is fit to fulfil the duties of a master in the Merchant Service, the duties being to navigate ships to and fro safely and to do the ship's business. The consequence is, the standard has been designedly kept at a minimum and raised from time to time so as not to shut out those men who, being otherwise good seamen, came in with a very small education and worked their way up to the quarter deck. But with regard to the first subject you mention, the practice and theory of plane and spherical trigonometry, that, however desirable it may be from an educational point of view, unnecessary for a man navigating a ship. The difficult problems in nautical astronomy and navigation can be worked out and are worked out, with absolute precision by means of tables of logarithms which have been produced from the first principles of spherical trigonometry, .and therefore, when a man takes an observation at sea he does not require to construct his problem ; he only requires an intimate knowledge of the formula and the mathematical tables with which he has to deal, and he is able- to wink out every problem to within a mile of a correct solution. So that if you add these subjects, you will absolutely bar all those men who have had an elementary education, and who have come in through the forecastle, because after a man gets to about 20 or 21, you cannot teach him satisfactorily spherical trigo nometry; you must begin with a lad of 12 or 13. The point is the problems are all satisfactorily worked out and with absolute precision by means of calculation. With regard to geometry, that has mostly to do with lanel surveying. That is a matter not at all required for a shipmaster, and we have never had it submitted to us before. Hon. W. 11. HUGHES : What do you mean by geometry ? Captain CHALMERS : Land measurement. Do you mean Euclid, Mr. Hughes? Hon. W. M. HUGHES : No, I do not. Captain CHALMERS : You mean geometry pure and simple. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Why is it not needed? Captain CHALMERS : Because a shipmaster does not require to go ashore and survey. Geometry is all very well for a surveyor or a man to go out to Africa and fix the position of different places by means of triangulation, but a shipmaster does his work by nautical astronomy. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I have not sufficient technical knowledge to know whether geometry is required; how ever, geography is. Captain CHALMERS : You don't say whether you mean political or physical geography or commercial. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I mean that kind of geography which it is desirable for him to know. Captain CHALMERS : That is physical geography. That is sufficiently tested. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : We do not want our ships manned by politicians. Captain CHALMERS : The shipmasters' knowledge of physical geography is sufficiently tested by the viva voce examination. We question him with regard to winds and currents. Hon. W t . M. HUGHES : I suppose that does include a knowledge of climatic conditions and currents and all that sort of thing? Captain CHALMERS : Oh, yes. Hydrography is a special subject which has to do with the, plotting out of the configuration of land and sea with soundings and drawing a chart from it. Cartography is one of the branches of it, but as every shipmaster is compelled to use Admiralty charts, it would be useless to make him compile a chart for himself.