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A.-5a

ItEPOItT OK I'KOOEEDINUS OF THE CONFEKENCE.

Hon. W. M. HUGHES: I see; the things he is not called upon to do are rather formidable. Caitain CHALMERS: The results have proved not. We are carrying our Mercantile Marine on in 20,760 bottoms or thereabout, each commanded by a master, and the result in losses is so small that we never hope to get a better result. Then his knowledge of meteorology is sufficiently tested in this way : that we examine in the theory, construction, and use of the barometer and thermometer, both aneroid and mercury column. He has to explain how a thermometer is constructed, and the theory upon which it is constructed, and the barometer also; he has to tell what the various indications forecast. If it ceases to fall suddenly, and begins to rise, he has to tell you what that means. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : If he knows how a barometer is constructed, that won't help him. The man that makes it needs that. Meteorology, as far as I understand it, means aii acquaintance with some of those facts that enable a man to foretell changes of weather. Captain CHALMERS: Those facts cannot be determined without the observation of the barometer and thermometer. Then he is examined in the use and practie f observation of both the- thermometer and barometer. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Is he examined in deductions from these observations? Captain CHALMERS: Yes. Naval architecture, we put that iu our fiist-class examination —an intimate knowledge—but every candidate from the second mate up has to show sufficient knowledge of the construction of a ship, to be able to describe how the vessel is divided into compartments, the position of the ballast tanks, and everything connected with them. He has to have an intimate knowledge with the bottom of the ship; the upper decks we do not trouble about till it comes to first-class extra. The English language, grammar and composition are sufficiently tested by means of a dictation paper which lasts a quarter of an hour. Hon. W. 11. HUGHES : What is that? Captain CHALMERS : A dictation paper. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Lasts how long? Captain CHALMERS: L6 minutes; and he has to write definitions and explanations of all the various astronomical teims, a great many of which the average layman has never heard of. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: In a quarter of an hour? Captain CHALMERS: No. The composition and grammar are tested by means of him having to write definitions and explanations of all the various geographical and astronomical terms which are in use, such as equinoctial, solstice, horizontal parallax—all these terms which the aVeiage layman knows nothing about. His spelling has to be correct, and his grammar has to be correct, so we consider that fairly tests his knowledge of English grammar and composition. With regard to the foreign language, we think that is not required. Mn. HAVELOCK WILSON: Not while they carry crews of about seven or eight different nationalities who cannot speak English ? Captain CHALMERS : As a matter of fact, the master of a big foreign ship does as a rule speak more than one language. Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON : He ought to speak a dozen. Mr. FERNIE : But under the new Act the sailors will have to understand the English language. Tin; CHAIRMAN : We are remedying that. Mu. DUNLOP : Might I say one word in answer to Mr. Hughes's remark regarding the lad who goes to sea? I should say those remarks exactly apply' to most lads on land, because anyone who has a son, after he has finished school must know that it costs him a great deal after he has finished his apprenticeship on laneL If then he gets £30 or £40 a year on land, he does very well; whereas there is no employment in which he is less dependent upon paternal care than at sea. When he has finished his

apprenticeship he gets, to take Mr. Hughes's own figures, live guineas a month; he is housed and fed. Can you tell me of any lad who, after four years' apprenticeship on land, gets a payment proportionate to that? I think there is no life for a young man that gives him a better chance of dapitalising than going to sea in the marine service, where he needs to spend so little; he is entirely kept and fed. The CHAIRMAN : Mr. Hughes, are you fairly satisfied with Captain Chalmers's answer? Hon. vV. M. HUGHES : I put my resolution forward, and Captain Chalmers seems to consider that the present examination is sufficient. I do not agree with him; but as I am not in a position to discuss the matter with that technical knowledge necessary, I can do no more than let it stand there. If you like, I will move my next resolution. Tin: C 11 A I l.'M AN : That is a different point altogether. Now 1 think we can get back to Resolution 1. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: It was on that I wanted to say a word. The agenda says, " Resolutions submitted by " the Imperial Delegation." Now, there are no resolutions submitted by the Imperial Delegation, because there is no Imperial Delegation. There is a delegation representing the British < .o\ eminent; there is a delegation representing the Commonwealth Government of Australia; and there is a delegation representing the New Zealand Government; but au Imperial Delegation would be a delegation representing the whole Empire; and therefore while it is immaterial, still I do not know why this word " Imperial" gets in. Why not say British Delegation? Tin. CHAIRMAN : British Delegation. Mn. COX : Why not Board of Trade representatives? Mu. LLEWELLYN SMITH : It need not appear on the notes, anyhow. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: I have nothing to do with that. Mr. LLEWKLLYN SMITH: Mr. President, Resolution 1 won't need more than a word or two from me. There is no question, of course, among us as te the sanctity and binding force of treaties. The only object of submitting any resolution bearing on this subject. ■ Hon. W. M. HUGHES : What did you say, no doubt about the binding force of treaties ? Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH: I mean if a treaty is binding, it has to be observed. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Binding upon whom? Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH : Well, if it is binding on the Australian Commonwealth, for example. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: What, a treaty entered into by you ? .Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH: I say if a treaty is binding upon the Australian Commonwealth, there is no doubt it has to be observed ; it goes without saying. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: Don't say it goes without saying; there would be a lot to be said about that. Mu. COX : Not if Australia has adhered to it. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: Certainly; it is binding if it expressly mentions us, or if we agree. Mr. COX : That is all that is meant. Mn. LI.KWKI.LV.\ SMITH : The only criticism that I could conceive that might be made upon this resolution is that it might be suggested that it was for the Home Government, when a Bill came for the Crown to assent, to detect if there was any conflict with any treaty, and to disallow it if that was discovered. But this is a very cumbrous, sometimes rather an irritating way of carrying on business. It involves a great delay, and if Bills carried provisions within them which safeguard treaty obligations in terms, it would often avoid delay w liich might postpone or prevent the bringing into force of a great number of very valuable provisions. If you take a great Bill like a Navigation Bill with several hundred clauses, there might lurk in one of those clauses, or possibly not in a clause at all, but in regulations that might be made under that