A.—sa

REI'OUT OF I'KOCEEDIMUb OF THE CONFEItENCE.

Act, the possibility of some conflict. It is a very difficult thing for any Government to advise disallowani such a thing as that, and we merely suggest that the way might lie smoothed if there were provisions in the Hut safeguarding treaty rights. Sir William Lym • il words safeguarding the possibility of any interference by any treaty rights unless those treaties had been expressly concurred in by the Colonics. Mr. Bertram Cox represents the department which deals with those things, and he will deal with that, tiut it is an understood thing that no treaties -ire made or will he made —commercial and navigating treaties—purporting to apply to self-governing Colonies without their voluntary adherence to them. Sir WILLIAM LVNE: This will have a far more reaching effect than it has now. We have already a dispute with the Imperial Government on this very point, and if this is carried Mr. COX : What is that ? Siu WILLIAM LVNK: 'that is with regard to the British preference. That is the very thing that is being disputed now, and if you pass this, it certainly weakens our position. We hold that there are Do treaty rights that should interfere with that, Mu. COX : May I say what the position of things is at the present moment. A rule has been laid down lor some years tint when any treaty is made between Great Britain and a foreign power, a clause is put in to the effect that this treaty shall not bind any Colony in any way whatever unless that Colony separately adheres to it; and that when the Colony has separately adhered to it, it may independently terminate it if it thinks fit by giving twelve months' notice. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Is that put in. Mr. COX : That is a clause we now put into every treaty, and helps us a great deal. These negotiations have to be carried on with great rapidity, and there is not time to consult, and if you do it takes a long time, and therefore it would help a Colony. Sir WILLIAM LVNE : A telegram is pretty rapid. Mr. COX : But if you are engaged on a commercial treaty it takes more than a few hours; it takes a few months. Now I do not see how any Colony in the world can object to the provision that no Colony need come in unless she likes, or that she can go out when she likes. If the law and the treaty conflict, it is the law that prevails. You may have a treaty which the law won't allow you to enforce; consequently, in times past when we have sent out a treaty to which Australia has adhered, we have called their attention to this fact : Saying in effect that His Majesty's Government would ask your Ministers to consider whether the law of the Colony allows this treaty to be carried into effect with a view of amending the la.w, if it does not it is understood that if a person willingly contracts to do anything, he ought not to put it out of his powers to carry that into effect. Therefore, it does not seem to me that any difficulty is raised by putting a provision in the law which has been put in in Newfoundland and New Zealand, to the effect that this Act shall be so constructed as not to infringe any treaty rights. Sir WILLIAM LYNE: Is that in the New Zealand Act? Mx. COX : I am not certain about New Zealand; I am pretty certain about Newfoundland, because I had to consider the Newfoundland Act with regard to Fisheries. The French and Americans have treaty rights in Newfoundland, and therefore they put in that the Act shall not interfere with treaty rights. That saves the situation ; it saves a foreign power, when they ask to be given their treaty rights, from somebody getting up and saying the law does not allow it. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : The law does not allow what? Mr. COX : Does not allow the treaty to be carried into effect. If you bind yourself by a treaty and the law of your country does not allow that treaty to be carried out, it is the law that prevails, not the treaty. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : I do not quite clearly see the position. You at the present time exercise rights ; we protest against that. If you put it into a Bill, how does that

alter the position at all, except it is a kind of tacit agreement by us as to the right of your interfering. Mu. COX : We do not wish to interfere at all. Supposing Australia has willingly agreed to a treaty; supposing Australia has clone that, anet the law of Australia does not permit Australia to fulfil its obligations under the treaty, is Australia prepared te. alter its i. Sir WILLIAM LVNE : There is no necessity. Mr. COX : These alterations cannot altei the law. Sm WILLIAM LYNE: In future we won't lie bound by any law we have not concurred in. It goes a long way further than that. Hon. W. el. HUGHES: What Mr. Cox says does not go further than Ihat. Siu WILLIAM LYNE : I beg your pardon, it goes a deal further. It will come up to-morrow or the next nlay ; it will come up on this very point. Mb. COX : 1 don't mind if it does. 1 want to be allowed to explain what this resolution means. What l say is, that it has been laid down by the Courts in the, country, and there is not the slightest doubt in my mind the Australian Judges would follow the same rule i« it is common si use. Sm .KiSKl'ii WARD : To meet Sir William Lym- I think yon .Iter it slightly. Say, "That it be "recommended to the Australian and New Zealand llei- " vernments that in any future Merchants Shipping legis- " latum to insert an express provision safeguarding the "obligations imposed by any treaties to which they have "adhered," and stop there. Mn. COX : Quite so; that is all we want. Sir WILLIAM I.VNK: 1 do not sec the- necessity for it. Siu JOSEPH WARD : The point, I take it, is this, if, as Mr. Bertram Cox has said, m all future treaties there is to be a clause Baying that this treaty shall not hind in any way whatever unless ihat Colony separately adhered to it, well and good; hut if there are now treaties iii existence to which we have adhered, it is only right that ihe continuous adherence should be provided for. Siu WILLIAM LVNK : I don't want any resolution to be passed which would have the effect of interfering with our position regarding treaties of the past. Sir JOSEPH WARD: This does not. Tin: CHAIRMAN : Surely, if you have adhered to them —it is only a provision which we are putting into our own Patent Bill which we are passing through the House ..! Commons, that nothing shall interfere with any treaty obligations, That is really all we want. Mr. COX : I am quite prepared to alter it. Sir WILLIAM LVNE: What is the d : fference between that and mine. I propose to strike out certain words and put in others, so that it would read : "An express pro- " vision safeguarding the Colonies from the possibility of "any interference by any treaty rights unless those rights ■■ have been expressly concurred in." Mr. COX : Sir Joseph Ward's puts the resolution in the same way. May I point out that I think Sir William Lyne is unduly suspicious on this point. There were two treaties when Canada was giving this country a preference, there were two treaties with Germany and Belgium which stood in the way, and the British Government at once denounced those treaties. You cannot say this country stood in the way, and you cannot say, having regard to that provision, that this country does not recognise the right of every Colony to come into a treaty when it likes and go out when ,t likes. Vou must give them perfect freedom to come in and go out when they like, and what we do when we negotiate a treaty is this, we send out and say, " Here is this treaty, do you want " to come in ? " Some Colonies say " Yes," a great many say " No." Hon. W M. HUGH _S : Can you give us that clause. Mil. COS : I can give you a copy. It was a clause for which I am myself in sonic degree responsible for pressing on the Foreign Office, because it saves everybody's rights.

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