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4:th Day.] Commercial Relations and British Shipping. [2 June, 1911. Sir JOSEPH WARD— cont. and New Zealand than it is to send them direct from England itself. That can only be done, in my opinion, as an outcome of this very valuable assistance which has been given, but, however it is done, it is that competition that is telling so much against, in my judgment at least, an equal opportunity for the men who are conducting the operations from this country to carry on successfully against their competitors who arc helped in the matter of these subsidies. For that reason I think the general proposition here is that it is desirable both in the interests of the United Kingdom and of the British Dominions to have British manufactured goods carried in British bottoms, and it is very desirable that we, as a Conference, should affirm that principle and do all in our power to assist it. As to the question of the treaties referred to both by Mr. Fisher and Sir Wilfrid Laurier, they open up a very important matter and we recognise that where there is a treaty existing between Great Britain and other countries it has to be respected, and so long as the treaty is in operation I know of no way in which you can, without a breach of agreement, have an alteration made excepting with the voluntary consent of the countries concerned. I want to wait, before forming a definite decision myse-lf, to hear Sir Wilfrid Laurier expound his proposition. I assume now, in dealing with this question of treaty, that the proposition which would give the liberty of withdrawing from the treaties would enable any of the oversea Dominions to enter into a treaty, subject to the Foreign Office consenting, with any of those foreign countries to carry on trade under a direct treaty. lam not quite clear as to the advantage of the withdrawing from an existing treaty, and it is a point upon which I want to hear, when Sir Wilfrid Laurier is explaining his resolution, a little more before I commit myself as to whether it is a desirable thing to do. Sir EDWARD MORRIS : May I interrupt you, Sir Joseph ? I understood Sir Wilfrid Laurier, in reading that resolution, distinctly to state "if they desire." Sir JOSEPH WARD : Yes, <: if they desire "—I say that. Mr. PEARCE : It only puts us into the same position with regard to the old treaties as with regard to the new. Sir JOSEPH WARD : It must be quite voluntary. Of course I quite recognise that. Ido not want to mix up this question of Europe generally With the proposal now before us, concerning which I sent a notice of motion ea,rtier in the year for the consideration of the Conference. In our country we hold a very strong opinion upon this question of our inability to have our own ships protected against extraordinary conditions in the shape of low rates of pay and excessive competition against the legitimate enterprise conducted by vessels manned by British men receiving rates of pay under the arbitration awards in our country who are supporting their wives and families under reasonable conditions ashore, and who to-day are likely to suffer tremendously as the outicome of the very difficult problem in connection with the importation of British subjects of a different colour to our own who are largely manning some of the British ships trading to our countries. I want to take an opportunity of saying here that the matter is regarded as very serious in our country, that as far as we are concerned everything in our power legitimately which we can do we intend to do to prevent it. As a matter of fact lam cognisant, with regard to one of those shipping companies of the great services it has rendered to this countrty, and T would not presume for a moment to say a word against a particular shipping company. I recognise that they are employing British subjects of a different Colony, some of them, to ours, and that they are conforming to the law of Great Britain and are doing exactly what they are entitled to do, but it