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2 June, 1911.1 Commercial Relations and British Shipping. Day. Sir JOSEPH WARD—con*. is when the extension of their sea voyages from the Old Country to Australia and on to New Zealand takes place, picking up a larger amount of local traffic as they do, that they will commence to make a very serious inroad upon other institutions manned entirely by white British subjects and receiving as I say good pay. It is then that the whole community in our country realises that they stand a chance of having great institutions there that have taken a lifetime to build up practically smashed to pieces unless they reduce the rates of pay of the officers, engineers, and men on board these steamers to an amount that a white man cannot support his wife and family upon. So that we are up against a very serious proposition in connection with the important matter of supportingBritish manufacturers and British ships, because it is undeniable that the ships I refer to are British. They may certainly have very good reasons for the way in. which they conduct their business, concerning which I am not in any way interfering, but it is the danger to our ships manned by white men of competition against coloured seamen and firemen employed at low rates of pay that I speak of. As to this matter of helping British manufactured goods and British shipping, we are doing it now, as far as New Zealand is concerned, to the extent of over half a million a year. We go on the line of helping the British manufacturer and the British shipowner against the competition which is due to the large subsidies to which I have just referred by protecting them to an extent on British goods, which represented in 1909 the amount of 504,845 Z. Mr. PEARCE : You say that you protect the shipowners. How do you doit? Sir JOSEPH WARD : We protect British goods. Mr. PEARCE : You also said the shipowner. Sir JOSEPH WARD : I beg pardon if I did; it is British goods that we protect. In other words, had we not the system in operation which is intended to help the British merchant as against the foreign competitor for our trade, we would have collected 1,073,000 Z. of duty from the British merchant, whereas we collected 504,000/. Now that is the only way in which we can help the British merchant against competitors who are carrying on their business, as I say, with steamers which are subsidised very heavily indeed. We confine our trade, as far as we can, to British merchants, and I think in turn they ought, as far as it is possible for them to do so, to see that their goods are shipped in British ships. That part of the responsibility devolves upon them and it is one upon which they can help very much. It probably would be more convenient if the discussion of the shipping laws was left until a later period. I only want to say now, as far as lam concerned; that I am not only anxious, but I intend, as far as it lies in my power, in every way I can to support the British merchant, and also to support the British shipping as far as it is possible in carrying that trade between the Old Country and New Zealand. . Dr. FINDLAY : May I make a suggestion at this stage ? Ido not want to discuss the matter, but it seems to me that we will be involved in a double, if not a treble, discussion on the same matter. We are discussing now this item No. 2on the Agenda Paper. Sir Wilfrid Laurier is going to propose a matter which either is very closely related, if not mutually involved, in the subjectmatter of Australia's proposal, and New Zealand has one equally closely related in connection with crews and navigation laws. Could not these be collated and discussed at the same time ? V - '