E. h. HARDY.j

61

I.—3a.

60. lion. Sir J . Carroll.] On what date was that meeting?— The 22nd March. 61. Mr. Massey.] That was the final meeting?— Yes. 62. You say you were not present?—l was not present when they first started. 63. You came in before the meeting was over?—Yee. 64. Was the question put to the Natives as to whether the alienation should be proceeded with, or whether the offer made to the Natives should be accepted?—l cannot tell you. 65. Did you explain to the Natives the result of your interview with Mr. Louglman and Mr. Chambeis? —No. Mr. Damon and Mr. Macdonald and Mr. Dalziell, who were informed of that, did. Mr. Dalziell was there representing the company. 66. Mr. Dalziell.] This was the meeting of assembled owners?— Yes. 67. Mr. Massey.] Mr. Dalziell was present at the meeting of assembled owners? —Yes. 68. You communicated the result of your interview then to Mr. Macdonald? —Yes, and Mr. Damon. 69. Did you see Mr. Dalziell when you came back?—l saw Mr. Dalziell at the meeting of assembled owners. 70. Mr. Dalziell was there representing the purchasers? Hon. Mr. Ngata: The witness was not present at the meeting of assembled owners. 71. Mr. Masse;/.] 1 understood you to say you came in before the meeting was over?— That was a preliminary meeting of the Natives themselves. 72. You were not present at that preliminary meeting?— Yes. I came in afterwards when the matter was before the Board. The chairman was there. 7:i. It was not a meeting of the Board? —The representative of the Board was there. 74. The chairman of the Board was the chairman of the meeting?— Judge Holland. 75. Were you present when the question was put? —Yes, I think I was. 76. Was there a vote for and against?— Yes. It was put in the usual way, that all those in favour of the motion should hold up their hands, and 1 think they all put up their hands. Then the Chairman asked that those against the motion should hold up their hands, and no one made any objection whatever. 77 Did you see many of these Natives prior to the meeting?— Yes, as many as ever I could talk to. 78. And you explained the offer ?—Yes. 79. You pointed out the advantages they would derive by accepting?—l did not point out any objection. I could only converse with those who could speak English, and I did what I could towards making the matter known as much as possible. 80. Did you not show to some of these Natives the advantage of the £2,500 in shares?— No, except to show that they would always have an interest in the land. 1 was not the intermediary. I did not profess to speak Maori. 81. How are these £2,500 worth of shares to be divided?—lney will simply be held in trust by somebody for the Natives, and sold when the proper times arises. 82. You have not satisfied yourself on that point? —Not yet. There are many things not (|uite settled up yet. 83. There is one point I cannot quite understand. You commenced with being a very strong opponent of the sale of the land, and identified yourself with the 77 per cent, of owners. As a matter of fact you acted for those who were opposed to the sale. But when it came to the actual sale you seem to have taken the other side of the question? —Oh, no, I did not. I simply let the Natives decide themselves. 84. But do you not see you proceeded to Palmerston to induce the people interested there, and who apparently were interested at that time, to make an additional offer. Y r ou went back and informed the Natives of that offer, and, according to your own statement, told them that they would still be interested in the land to the extent of £2,500 Hon. Mr. Ngata: Is this a question? Mr. Massey: Yes. I cannot understand the change of front on your part, Mr. Hardy, and I want to give you an opportunity of explaining. Witness: The onus "of changing front did not rest with me at all. I simply put the facts as they were, and it was for the Natives to say whether it was satisfactory or not. 85. Mr. Massey.] But you appear to have changed your mind? —No, I did not change my mind. If you asked any Maori what sum of money was to be substituted for the £25,000, there is not one who could suggest any sum at all. I have never heard any other sum mentioned—not £26,000, nor £30,000. As I said, that matter was never referred to. If it had been suggested by any person that there should be an increase in that respect, no doubt I should have brought it forward, or put the matter into the hands of those who were running the concern —that is, Damon and Macdonald. 86. Is it not a fact that you were identified in the first instance with the 77 per cent, of Natives who were opposed to the sale? —No. That 77 per cent, was only a term. 87. Never mind the 77 per cent. There were a certain number of the Natives strongly opposed to i he sale at first?—l have told you that a few of the older people at Mokau were opposed, but they were opposed to it simply on sentimental grounds. 88. I do not want to know why they opposed : the fact that they did oppose is sufficient for me. It was on their behalf that you interviewed Mr. Bell in the first instance?—lt was on behalf of everybody. We had the proxies, of course, and I gave distinct instructions that no proxies of persons who had offered the slightest objection should be used at the meeting. Only those who were present or had given specific instructions after being informed w r ere represented at that meeting. 89. Were the proxies used?—l could not say. 90. Hon. Mr. Ngata.] At which meeting?— That on the 22nd March