I.—3a.

62

[c. h. hakdy.

91. Was there any need to use the proxies/—Mo, because there was unanimity: there was a unanimous agreement. I kept in the background. 1 had nothing to do with the law matters at all. I was only to come in when the Natives wanted some suggestion that might be helpful to them. 92. Mr. Massey.] You were engaged to look after their interests in the first instance?— Yes, generally. 93. By whom were you engaged? —By all those present at Mokau. The people at Mokau were only three or four old people. All the younger ones had gone to Mahoenui and Aria. The old people were only the derelicts, as it were. 94. I suppose you are aware that we have had evidence to the effect that a very large proportion of the Natives were opposed to the sale?— No. Ido not know that they were. I understood that Pepene Eketone had been there the day before. !).">. He was in favour of the sale? —Yes. He was there before we got there, and I understood he made clear what he wanted, and it is possible that many of those Natives agreed with him. But they did not voice their opinions. Only one or two of tlu older people voiced their opinions. The others said nothing. So one could only infer from their conduct what they thought. 96. Was Mr. Dalziell present at all the meetings of assembled owners at Te Kuiti while you were there? —I presume he was. 97. You were there? —Yes—well, 1 was not at the one when Mr. Skerrett was present. 98. Do you not think it should have been your duty to see that the Natives were properly represented by counsel in connection with important negotiations such as these? —Certainly. The telegrams showed the part I played on that. 99. It' you thought it was necessary for them to be represented by counsel, why did you not engage counsel for the purpose?— was not time. Besides, as I have said, I had my instructions. I only took instructions from my superiors, and they were (In , Natives. They were all there. Every one who has had any dealings with Natives knows that it' a man puts his spoke in where he is not wanted he will very soon be shut up. 100. But you were paid for your services?— No. 101. That is to say, you have not been paid yet?—No; monetary matters are held in suspense. 102. You have made a claim? —No. 103. I have it here?— There is a statement there in that book. Hon. Sir J. Carroll: That is Mr. Hardy's own book. Witness: I never gave that book away. 1 lent it to Mr. Bowler. Things were not far enough advanced to complete it. I merely had it bound for my own convenience. 104. Mr. Masse]/.] You told us thai you advanced £100 to Mr. Bell? —Yes. It was afterwards repaid to me by Aterea, but Aterea again borrowed .£6O from me for himself and his mother, because he had not been paid. At the time that statement was made up, that was the state of affairs. 105. That explains this minute: "E. H. Hardy moved that the account be paid, and that the sum of £100 advanced by Aterea Ahiwaka to Messrs. Bell and Myers be refunded to him "? — Yes. At that time he had not taken the £60 from me. 106. The point is that according to your own minute the £100 was advanced? —I did not take the minutes. 107. But these are your own statements? —They are not my own statements. 108. Then whose are they? —They are the translations of the meeting that was carried on in Maori. I wrote those down afterwards from a statement made by Damon and Macdonnld. 1 did not translate them. 1 gave them to Mr. Bowler chiefly on account of the fact that I had taken out a list of all the original owners and along with that a list of all the successors, with their portions of shares. 109. Is this statement here a correct copy of an account rendered by you to the Mokau Natives? —Yes, but it was not intended to be final by any means. It was correct as far as it went, but it did not embrace everything. 110. Have you more than this owing to you? —I shall have more than that. 111. That is to say, your claim will be for a larger sum than the amount mentioned here?— Yes. 112. Hon. Sir J. Carroll.] You did not make a present of that £60? —No. I got that back when Aterea was paid. You will see in that book a memorandum of moneys advanced to these people. 113. Mr. Massey.] There is a lot more than that. One item here I see is a bonus of £55 10s. for arranging about the shares? —I will explain that. When that matter was discussed I left the room." 1 When they began to talk about the shares and some compensation for me for that 1 said I would leave the room; that that was a matter for them to discuss, and I went out. When 1 came back they said, " We have discussed this question of the shares, and we wish you to take £55 10s." That was about 2 J per cent. 114. That is to say, the Natives were willing that you should be given that amount?— Yes. 115. You have not received it yet? —No. 116. Did you have any other interview with Mr. Loughnan at I'almerston than the one at which Mr. Mason Chambers was present? —Not that I know of. 117. Oh, come. Have you had any other interview? Surely you know?—l do not know what you refer to. 118. Did you have any other interview or interviews with Mr. Loughnan besides the one at which Mr. Mason Chambers was present? —Do you mean on that occasion? 119. I mean at any time at Palmerston? —Yes. 120. How many?—As far as I know, one. 121. On what date?—l oould not tell you.