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98. The Chairman.'] You are aware that a number of settlers up there have subleases of this block from Flower? —Yes. 99. What right has your company over those subleases —any at all?—We have none. 100. In the event of your company not complying with the memorandum of agreement so far as cutting up and roading is concerned, what will be the position?— Well, 1 understand that it will be taken over by the Native Land Board if at the end of three years we have not disposed of the land. As a matter of fact, however, we have a contract let, and there are five parties of surveyors at it now, and we will have all sold before the 31st March next. The instructions to the surveyors are that we want everything to be in the market and off our hands before the 31st March. 101. Mr. Massey.] You know, of course, that the Maori Land Board may extend the term?- — Yes; but we are not going to ask them to extend it. 102. The Chairman.\ Then surveyors are at work at present?— They have been at work for the last three months. The contract is that the last of it is to be in the market on the 31st March. 103. Will the rights of those sublessees whom I mentioned just now be preserved absolutely? —Yes. We are outside that absolutely. We have nothing to do with the land that is sublet. We have, however, to make our roads through their ground, and it will be opening up their land for them. They will come out of it very well. [The witness handed in several documents referred to in the evidence.]

Thursday, 7th September, 1911. Frank Rattknbury sworn and examined. (No. 12.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you?—A storekeeper at Tongaporutu. 2. Have you seen this paper which has been published about the Mokau-Mohakatino Block? —No. 3. Have you seen anything published in the newspapers concerning it?— Yes, I have seen a little. 4. Mr. Massey has requested that you should be present to give some evidence to the Committee in connection with the matter. Are you prepared to make a statement or submit yourself to examination? —Either—I am not particular. 5. Mr. Massey.] I have asked that you should come along to give us what information you have about the Mokau transaction, and I have done so after receiving your letter of August last? —Yes. 6. Are you personally interested in the Mokau Block?—My wife is—she is one of the owners. 7. Have you any other relatives interested in the block besides your wife?— Yes, plenty of relatives of my wife. 8. Hon. Mr. Ngata.] What is your wife's name? —Merangi Taramau. 9. Mr. Massey.] Were you present at any meeting or meetings at Mokau of the owners of the Mokau Block to consider the proposed sale to Horrman Lewis? —I was at every meeting. 10. Were there several meetings? —Three or four, I think, but not for the sale of the land. The meetings were for the purpose of arranging about opposing the sale of the land. 11. That is to say, the Natives decided to oppose the proposed sale? —Yes. 12. Were there many Natives present at the first meeting?—l think the second meeting was the biggest. 13. How many were present at the second meeting? —There must have been close on a hundred and fifty or two hundred, roughly speaking. 14. And were they all interested in the Mokau land? —Yes. 15. Some of them indirectly—they were not all actual owners, but relatives of actual owners? -Yes. 16. Was the proposal discussed? —Yes. 17. By whom was the proposal laid before the Natives?—By Pepene—that was before the sale. 18. Pepene was inclined to sell? —Yes. 19. He is himself an owner, or his wife? —His wife is. 20. Was his proposal well received by the other Natives? —No. 21. Hon. Mr. Ngata.] Will you tell us the date of that meeting?—l am not sure. 22. What month was it? —I could not tell you that. 23. Hon. Sir J. Carroll.] Was it a private meeting of the owners?— Yes. 24. Mr. Herries.] Was it before or after the assembled meeting of owners?— After. 25. Mr. Massey.] It was after the assembled meeting of owners held at Te Kuiti ?—Yes. It was the third meeting that Pepene was at and opposed the sale. 26. Was Pepene not present at the second meeting?— Yes, I think he was. 27. Hon. Sir J. Carroll.] Where was it held?—At Mokau. I think it was at the third 28. Mr. Massey.] Was that the most important meeting? —Yes; that was when they opposed the sale —that was the biggest crowd. 29. And the Natives were generally opposed to the sale? —Yes. 30. Were there many supporting Pepene in his proposal?—No, none of the Mokau people. 31. Was there much"talking and speech-making? —Certainly. 32. Hon. Mr. Ngata.] Do you speak Maori? —Yes, a little. 33. Mr. What was the purport of the meeting? —Pepene said, "You come to Wellington and fight the same as I do. You will find a great wall. I cannot get over it. You come down and try, and if I can help you I will." That was what Pepene said when he went away.