I.— 3a

86

[V. BATTENBURY.

34. Do you mean Pepene left the meeting? —Yes. 35. I want to know what decision was come to at the meeting. Did they agree to any resolutions or arrive at any understanding?— Only that the Mokau people opposed the sale. '■'}(>. The general understanding was that they were nearly all opposed to the sale —it is correct to say that?— Yes. 37. Did they arrange to place the case in the hands of any agent or agents?—lt was at that time in the hands of Mr. Hardy, of Te Kuiti. 38. It was understood he was to act for the Natives?— That is so. 39. And was he instructed to oppose the sale? —Yes, certainly. 40. Would you mind telling us what happened after that?— They went away to Te Kuiti, also Mr. Hardy. 41. Hon. Mr. Ngata.] What time was this meeting held—l would like some idea?—l could not even tell you that from memory. 42. The Chairman.] Was it this year, or before Christinas last?— Yes, I think it was this year. 43. You might refresh your memory later on? —Yes; the man with the information has not arrived with the papers this morning, or I should be able to tell you. 44. Mr. Masse;/.] I omitted to ask you whether Mr. Hardy was present at that meeting at Mokau when Pepene was there?—No, he was not there. 45. But you said they went back to Te Kuiti : whom do you mean by " they "? —Pepene. 46. Now tell us about the instructions and arrangement with Mr. Hardy?—He was employed really as agent. We subscribed about £42 to pay expenses. That was for Tuiti, Damon, and Mr. Hardy to pay expenses to go to Auckland. We never hoard a word from Hardy since, except when he came down after the sale to pay out the moneys to our side. 47. Mr. Hardy never communicated with the Natives after that?— That is so. 48. You are quite clear that Bardy had definite instructions to oppose the sale?— Yes; they all signed to that effect in Mokau. 49. Is the document in existence? —I think Paereruku is at Otaki. If he had been here this morning I could have got all the dates of the meetings and everything required. 50. Did the Natives express any opinion when they heard the land had been sold? —Yes, they were very much dissatisfied. 51. And angry?— Yes, certainly. 52. Did they object to the price for which the land was sold?— Well, most of them did —in fact, all of then. did. 53. They were not anxious to sell?— No. 54. They wanted to keep the land?— Yes. 55. Have they received payment for the land? -A lot of them have now, but my wife haR not, nor Ngawhakaheke, Te Oro Watihi, and Te Awaroa. 50. Did you hear of any proposed deduction from the purchase-money of 10 per cent.? —Yes. 57. Were the Natives willing to pay it? —No. 58. Were you given to understand what the 10 per cent, was intended to meet?—To pay the expenses of some people. 59. Which people'! -I understood Hardy and Pepene —the two combined. 60. Did youi , wife and the other Natives concerned think Hardy's conduct satisfactory in this connection? —No. the;, were very much dissatisfied. Gl. Hon. Sir ■/. Carroll.] Whal is your wife's objection to the sale? —Mostly, I think, because Te Oro Watihi said he never signed the lease. My wife succeeded to a share, and is a niece of Te Oro Watihi. 62. Hon. Mr. Nr/afa.] Do you know whether he has got any other name?— No. Te Oro Watihi has always been his name. 63. He does not appear under that name in the list?—T do not know that. 64. Hon. Sir ./. CarrellJ] That was the ground on which your wife dissented from the sale, that some of her elders hod not signed the lease?— Yes. 65. Tt was with a view. then, of testing the lease that she held out?— Yes, that is the position. 66. So as not to prejudice her position? —Yes. and the old gentleman's. 67. Can you tell me how many there are now who have not received the purchase-money? Te Oro Watihi, my wife, Ngawhakaheke, and Te Awaroa —those four in my district. 68. Was not the object of the first proposition when the Natives were called together to endeavour to raise money to oarry on the action in the Supreme Court to upset the leases?— Yes, that was understood : and they gave certain blocks of land as a guarantee —namely, Papakauri and other lands at Mokau. 69. Were you aware after that effort was made to raise the money that those blocks were handed over?— Yes, it was left to Hardy and Tuiti. 70. Did Hardy tell the Natives that he was unable to finance on the lands —that he could not raise the money?—l think he did —I think it was sent through to some of them by message. 71. That he could not raise the money necessary to carry on the action? — Yes. 72. On the security of the lands which it was agreed to by the Natives should be submitted for that purpose? —Yes. 73 Did the Natives then realize that the failure to raise the money necessary meant that they could not go on with the case? —Yes. 74. And was it not then and only then that they considered any proposals for sale?—No, they still opposed the sale—they would not sell the land. 75. You mean a section of them when you say " they "?—Yes, at that time the whole of the Mokau.