I.—3a.

108

[V. G. DALZIELL.

Witness: When 1 say " about the time " 1 am speaking comparatively. 1 think it was two or three years afterwards. The Natives received, by way of consideration for giving up these covenants, an additional rental of .tl.j per annum, and that sum had been paid them for a period of over twenty years. 1 think it was quite likely that sonic of tin.' Natives, at any rate, had not signed this deed of covenant, but it was plain that all of them had accepted rent under it. I asked Mr. Hoskiug to advise as to each of these covenants, and his opinion was that neither the covenant to form a company nor that to employ surveyors, &c, bound anybody but the original lessee —Mr. Jones. He thought, however, that the other two covenants—thai is. to spend £3,000 a year and to reside on the land—did pass to the assignee of the lease. In his opinion, however, Mr. Herrman Lewis was nut liable Eor tin breach "I any covenant which had taken place before he bought, but that he might be liable as from that date, unless the Natives had received rent. His final opinion was that there was a very strong case for arguing that the whole of the covenants had gone, and in that case, of course, the lease was perfectly good. In any event, he advised that, in his opinion, relief would be granted from forfeiture. I therefore concluded that Mr. Lewis had a very good chance indeed of retaining the whole of his leases, and in the circumstances that then existed there was no doubt that he could for the future perform these covenants, if they were held to be binding on him, which seemed very doubtful. Furl her, Mr. Lewis hail at this time entered into a contract for sale to Mr. Mason Chambers, under which he was to get £46,000 for the leases and £25,000 for the freehold. 8. Mr. Masse y.] Additional?— Yes"; that is, if he could get the freehold, Mr. Mason Chambers would pay the £25,000. If he could not, then Mr. Chambers would pay just as much for the leases as he was paying for them if he Could Dot gel the freehold. 9. Mr. II i rries.~\ Do you know the date of that agreement?—l am not quite sure. It was some time before the 10-th March. The option was given in January. It is lair to say, however, so far as paying £46,000 for the leases was concerned, that Mr. Mason Chambers was not bound to go on with that under the agreement; but he could, if he liked, within a period of three months, purchase at that price. Now, thai was the position at that da-te, and it seemed to me that our best course was to withdraw the offer and place the question of the leases before the Court rather than allow the matter to stand over. We were at this time being constantly pressed by Mr. Campbell's firm, the solicitors for the trustees, to have the matter completed. Their people at Home were writing very strongly and complaining that the matter was not receiving proper treatment at the hands of Campbell's firm—Travels, Campbell, and Peacock. Xow, on the (sth March, Mr. Hell asked for a further adjournment. I, however, would not agree, and the meeting was accordingly held on the 10th March. I went to Te Kuiti and attended the meeting. 1 think the meeting was fixed for about 10 o'clock, but it was adjourned at the request of the Natives, in order that they might hold a private meeting. The Natives were conferring together practically all day, and I was informed bj Mr. Grace and Mr. .[ones, both of whom were present, that they were making up their quarrel and were now all coming to the conclusion that they ought to sell, because they had not been able to raise the necessary funds to carry on the litigation. A meeting of assembled owners was held again in the afternoon, and at that meeting I told the Natives that unless they arrived at a conclusion on the resolution that day I would withdraw the offer. I did not put it as a tin eat, but I pointed out to them that the money necessary to pay them and to purchase the leasehold interests was available at the time, that such a large sum of money could not be held indefinitely, and that it was therefore necessary for these people to know at once whether the transaction was to go on or go off. The Natives then asked for a further adjournment till the evening, and tiny had, I believe, several further private meetings. In the evening they met again for a formal meeting, ami Mr. Macdonald, who throughout these proceedings had represented the Natives at the meetings, made a speech, in which he said they were all coming to the conclusion, or had come to the conclusion, that they should sell. But, he said, they desired to have a further meeting at Mokau in order that they might discuss the matter further with the Natives at Mokau, and he accordingly moved that the meeting should be adjourned for some considerable time—l forget what time I objected to such a long adjournment, but ultimately agreed to the,2lst March. There was no question about the Natives not understanding the position at that time. Mr. Macdonald's speech was made publicly, in the presence of all the Natives. 10. Mr. Massey.] In Maori? —In Maori. 11. Are you sure?— Certain, because I had to get it interpreted by Mr. Grace, who was present, and Mr. Grace told me he considered Macdonald hail quite come over. That is how I remember it. 12. Mr. Dive.] Is he a licensed interpreter! — Yes. Xow, there was no question about the feeling of the Natives then. Their representative was quite open in sa3'ing that they w T ere all of opinion that they should now sell : it was only a question of getting confirmation at Mokau. At this time I had had no negotiations at all, either directly or indirectly, with the non-sellers, nor had, I believe, anybody else on behalf of the purchasers. We were told quite plainly that the people who were to settle this thing, if it was to go through, were our own people, and we refrained altogether from any communication of any kind with the other side relating to the purchase. And these remarks apply to the time after this meeting, as well as before. Before the date fixed—the 21st March —I was informed by Mr. Grace, I think it was, that Mr. Hardy was coming down to Wellington to see me, and going, he understood, to Palmerston to see Mr. Loughnan. I at once telephoned Mr. Loughnan, and begged him to have nothing to do with Mr. Hardy, because I felt that the Natives would sell, and I was afraid that if we negotiated with the Hardy people we should lose the other side. However, it seems that Mr. Loughnan did see Mr. Hardy, and made the arrangement of which Mr. Hardy has informed the Committee. 13. The Chairman.] Was Mr. Loughnan acting with you on that occasion?—No, he was not acting with me. He was rather acting against me, in a sense. They were apparently very anxious that we should see the matter through, in order that their arrangements might be carried out.