L—3a.

132

[t. w. fisher.

7. You have no idea as to the value of it? —Oh, yes. 1 may say that I doubt very much if the value of the land, roaded and made suitable for settlement purposes, would average £1 ss. per acre. I doubt if the land would realize that, taken as a whole. 8. Mr. Masse//.] You know what it has been sold for? — l know what properties are often sold for. 9. The Chairman.] Bare you any knowledge of the minerals thai are on the land?—l should not value them very highly. 10. Do you know if the property is covered with noxious weeds in various parts)— No, I could not even say that. The bulk of it, of course, would be in bush. 1.1. Knowing the clase of country, what would he your opinion s<. far as reading is concerned : would it, be an expensive matter, or inexpensive? —1 should estimate that the subdivisional survey .•mil loading of the block would cost between £20,000 and £30,000 to make it fit for settlement purposes. 12. Were there any communications ai all from the Maoris interested to you? — No. 18. Did the parlies interested in any way approach you?—No more than this: that Mr. Dalziell, as agent for Mr. Lewis, has called upon me at times with reference to the Order in Council. 14. Hon. Mr. Ngata.] Did you, in your official capacity, ever receive an offer from the Natives to sell at £22,500? —No. 15. 'There is nothing on the records? —It never came to me; I never beard of it. 16. With regard to Mr. Howler's position as trustee of this land: Mr. Bowler told the Committee that the matter was referred by him to the Department, as to the advisability of his accepting; and I think he said the Solicitor-General was consulted also?— Yes. I got the proposed agreement from Mr. Bowler about the 26th April, and 1 noticed from same that the trustee had been altered--that the Public Trustee had been eliminated and Mr. Bowler inserted. I sent a memorandum to the Native Minister in which 1 said that 1 noticed this alteration. 17. Mr. Berries.] Will you read the correspondence?—My letter of the 7th April is the first memorandum to the Minister on the subject. It is as follows: "Native Department, 7th April, 1911. — Memorandum for the Hon. the Native Minister. —MokauMohakatino If, Ig, Ih, and 1j : I have received from the President of the WaikatoManiapoto District Maori Land Board an agreement which it is proposed should be executed in connection with the transfer of the above blocks. At the interview Mr. Dalziell had with you in connection with these sales it was understood the Public Trustee was to be the holder of the fee-simple, in trust for Mr. Herrman Lewis or his assignees, and I presumed the parties had made their arrangements accordingly. In the present case, however, the position is varied, and I note the agreement (page 4, clause 5) states the fee-simple is to be transferred to W. 11. Bowler, the President of the Board, the Public Trustee being erased, i uni not clear as to how this is going to work. The Board is, under the arrangements, the intermediary between the vendors and the purchasers, and it also has to see to the further carrying-out of the arrangements implied —namely, the settlement of this block under the limitation of area as set out in the Native Land Act, 1909. Therefore it might mean that difficulties would arise if the President of the Hoard hold the fee-simple. Of course, the trust sets out that he holds it on trust under the Board's action, who are enabled to execute and do necessary work, but I think the position is one that should be carefully looked into before final arrangements are made. Probably it would be advisable for the Solicitor-General to comment thereon. —Thos. W. Fisher, Under-Secretary." The Minister minuted it back to me, " Solicitor-General for opinion." I sent it on to the SolicitorGeneral on the following day —the Bth April—and it was returned to me from the SolicitorGeneral on the 20th : " I see no objection to the appointment of Mr. Bowler as trustee." 18. llan. Mr. Nyata.] Is that the only correspondence relating to Mr. Bowler's position as trustee? —That i.s the first letter. Then there is my memorandum to the President of the Board, as follows : " Native Department, Wellington, 26th April, 1911.—Memorandum for the President, Waikato-Maniapoto District Maori Land Board, Auckland.—Mokau-Mohakatino Block: Herewith I return you the draft copy of agreement forwarded to me on the 25th ultimo. In connection therewith I have no further suggestions to make. The file has, under instructions from the Hon. the Native 'Minister, been before the Solicitor-General, particularly as to the feesimple being transferred to yourself in place of the Public Trustee. He (the Solicitor-General) sees no objection to your holding the land under the conditions set out in the trust. One thing, however, seems to me necessary —that is, that some remuneration should be paid by the company to the person holding that position, which is debarred you under the Civil Service Regulations. Clause 4 makes the President responsible, but this must be considered as the Board, as no doubt the President has been selected owing to the difficulties of the Board accepting a trust, which they could only do in an official position. Therefore, the remuneration should be a credit for the Board's work, and I am sure the Government would fully recognize the additional responsibility placed upon the President over the transaction. Cabinet would also probably view the position favourably and reimburse the officer accordingly. What the amount should be fixed at is somewhat difficult to assess, but, as all direct expenses, travelling, &c, would no doubt be charged to the block, an amount of, say, £75 or £100 per annum might be considered equitable. However, this is a matter which you could discuss with the company, so that the position may be defined before final acceptance. I quite understand that proceedings would work more smoothly if the Board had actual control of the trust, which, although it is vested, as I said before, in the President, it is only in the nominal sense, as leader of the Board. The only reason T am against the position is that if litigation should occur in any way it would cause a considerable amount of trouble to an officer who would have no pecuniary benefit in the proceedings. However, you have had a fair insight into the dealings generally, and, although the Hon. the Native Minister has not yet had the Solicitor-General's opinion before him, I anticipate no objection from him