W. C. KENSINGTON.]

131

I.—3A.

66. Was any price mentioned which they were willing to take? —Not to me. 67. About the value of the block, I understood you to say that in making your estimate you did not take into consideration the value of the minerals? —That is quite right. G.S. It is quite possible that they may be exceedingly valuable I—They1 —They may be. 1 think you were out of the room when I gave information about the main outcrops and the map. The main outcrops are outside the Mokau-Mohakatino Block. 69. But do yiiii tin! think, judging from your experience, that coal might be found anywhere there? —Certainly. The Rangers say so. 70. Have you seen the coal? —1 believe 1 did once, but 1 have not paid much attention to it. 71. I was going to ask you how it compared with the Huntly coal?—I could not tell you. 72. Do you know the price at which tin- block lias changed hands recently? -Only from what 1 have seen stated in evidence before this Committee. ' 7-' i. Yon saw that it had become the property of the present company, they having purchased it at the value of £81,000 and £4,000 worth of shares, and (lie previous owner retaining 7,000 acres of the best of the land? —1 saw that in the report of the evidence. 74. That will bring it up practically to about £100,000? —Yes, it looks like it. 75. I suppose that may he accounted for by the minerals? —That is my opinion. J cannot see where the value conies in except in that way. 76. Have you heard that Mr. Jones was at one time offered by cable £100,000 lor his interest, on the understanding that he would have his titles put right by the Government I—No,1 — No, I do not know that myself. I read the letter from Mr. Jones's agent to the Crown, offering his interest on certain conditions, lhat was when he asked £150,000. The Chairman: That is all, thank you, Mr. Kensington. Witness: I will send you the map and tile information as to the dates of the survey and liens.

Thursday, 21st September, 1911. Thomas William Fibhßß sworn and examined. (No. 22.) 1. The Chairman.] What are you, Mr. Fisher? —Under-Secret ary for Native Affaire. 2. You have been asked to give information in connection with the Mokau-Mohakatino Block. Do you care to make a statement, or would you rather subject yourself to examination? —I have no statement to make, beyond referring to what has actually gone through the office in connection with the Order in Council. The matter first came to my notice on the 12th December, l!>10, by a letter from Mi. Skerretl to the Native Minister, dated the 20th September. This was written on behalf of the Native owners, and suggested proposals tor the settlement of the difficulty as between the lessee and the owners. 3. Hon. Mr. Ngata.] Is that the letter which is printed in the paper referred to this Com mitteel —Yes. Ihiii. Mr. Ngata: Then it need not be read. We have it. Witness: That letter, I notice, was referred, on the "21st September, by the Native Minister to Cabinet for consideration. The letter shows a minute from Cabinet, dated sth December, deciding that the restrictions were to be removed to permit of the owners selling. That was referred to the Native Minister to take action. On the L9th December .in application was lodged with me to be forwarded to the President of the Waikato-Maniapoto District Maori Land Hoard. for an Order in Council to allow the limitation-of-area provision to be exceeded. This was lodged by Messrs Chapman, Skerrett, Wylie, and Tripp, on behalf of the Native owners; and there was also one lodged by Mr. Herrman Lewis as purchaser. On the 20th December I informed the President of the Board that the Native Minister, under section 341 of the Native Land Act, 1909, had directed that a meeting of assembled owners should be held in connection with the four MokauMohakatino blocks. These notifications were duly advertised in the Gazette on the 22nd December. On the 14th January, L9H, I received intimation from the President of the Hoard that the Hoard had decided to issue recommendations for the Order in Council to allow of the acquisition by Mr. Lewis, under section 203 of the ,\ct of l!)l)!l, of the total area of the four blocks. (In the 27th January the papers were referred by myself to the Native Minister, for the purpose of authorizing action. They were returned to me by the Native Minister on the I Ith March, with instructions to take action on the Cabinet minute of the sth December, for the purpose of removing the restrictions. On the 14th March —the same date- the Minister signed the authority for the document going forward to the Executive. On the 15th it was approved by the Executive, and was then sent on for the Governor's signature On the 20th March the Valuer-General's certificate was received. That gave the latest valuation for the purpose of the sale, and it was sent on to the Hoard's representative at Te Kuiti. who was presiding at the assembled owner's meeting. On the 24th March I received the Order in Council back from tiie Clerk of the Executive Council. On the 29th Marc!' the President of the Board wrote advising that the assembled owners' resolution had been duly approved. On the 30th March the Order in Council was notified in the Gazette. 4. The Chairman.] Is that all in reference to the Order in Council? —That is all I have to say in reference to that. 5. Is there any other point that you can give information upon to the Committee?— Not that I know of. I was not connected with the matter until after the letter of the 20th September reached me on the 12th December with Cabinet's resolution of the sth December. I got my instructions on that date, the 12th December. 6. Do \ou personally know this property? —I have been on it, but I have never made a personal inspection for the purpose of making a valuation.