I.—9b.

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the members of the union, or of each of the unions concerned, in manner following." Surely, when the Act said a reference or an application should be approved by the members, it meant all the members of the unions. 8. Mr. McLaren.] In the ordinary way of business? —Surely you can take it that way, but that has been dodged. It seems to me that in any disputes the minds of the members of the unions should be got at, and our friends of the 'Trades Council object to that being done. We say it is absolutely essential. So far as I can gather, the other alterations are consequential. 9. You do not suggest that there should be an absolutely unanimous decision in every case?— No, the vote of the employees does not mean a unanimous decision, it means the decision of the majority. There are only a couple of matters on which I should like to go outside the four corners of the Bill. The first is in connection with the warehousemen's dispute, where we find ourselves in a very difficult position. Shortly put, we ask first that provision should be made to provide for publication in the public Press of application for the registration of unions, so that notice of protest against registration may be given if necessary. I feel perfectly satisfied that if that had been the law in connection with the warehousemen's union a different condition would prevail, and which I believe would have been in the interests of all the parties concerned. It is not in the interests of that union that there should be this strife and turmoil in connection with their application; and I [relieve in that case such good evidence would have been put before the Registrar that the scope of the union, while it would have been restricted, would have math' for strength in itself. It is desirable also, from the point of view of the employers, that they should know what unions it is proposed to connect with their industries. Secondly, we ask that provision should be made to give the right to definite sections of workers to register notwithstanding that they are provided for in another and more comprehensive union. In this connection lam advised —I do not know personally how true it is, but Mr. Grenfell, tic secretary of the employers' association is my informant —that inquiry was made to ascertain if ihe salesmen ami those who compose the storemen and packers in the warehouses could register notwithstanding the registration of the general union. They were informed that they could not leirister. Well, it may be desirable in a case such as the present that they should be allowed to register. In any case, the Registrar has discretion. 10. Mr Luke.] Is that apart from the clerical side?— Well, although there has been all this trouble, I have taken little or no interest in it. It is quite conceivable that with the clerical staff and salesmen, and distinctly warehouse people as against storemen and packers, there will not be any community of interest. In a case like that we think that there should be machinery by which the Registrar might register those sections of workers separately. The only other thing I want now to mention, and that briefly, to the Coi ittee is this: that laymen should be allowed to appear in the Magistrate's Court. We ask that permission should be made to permit the secretaries of recognized employers' organizations to appear in the Magistrate's Court. The astonishing thing is that we are permitted to appear in the superior Court but not in the lower Court. The peculiar point of unfairness is that the industrial unions can appear by their secretaries, but the secretary of recognized employers' associations, which cannot register under- the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act cannot appear. Our employers' associations cannot register, but there are some of us recognized as employers' servants and know the conditions of the awards in the same way as the secretaries of workers' unions. We are recognized officials of the employers, the same'as the officials of the workers' unions, and we think that it is only fair that we should have the same privilege. 11. As to clause 3, what means do you suggest to get these people to take any action or to be made parties to an industrial agreement, because under the Act they are included?—l suggest that you provide that unless it is proved the employers who are parties to an industrial agreement employ a majority of workers in the district, there should lie an arrangement by which we should be able to go on to the Arbitration Court, and then the other employers could be brought in by citation before the Court and there get an opportunity of defending themselves. 12. You admit at the present time' that there is a difficulty in getting some of these people to take any action at all/ —There is not so much when they are actually cited, because then they will take action. Our tremble is this, that in the example I gave you nine or ten employers who might be employing little or no labour to speak of, when an industrial agreement is entered into there is no means id' those who do not employ labour knowing anything about it. Under Mr. Reyling's suggestion they could go into Court while those who were seriously affected would know nothing about it. 13. What steps do you take to get them interested ami able to say Yes or No to an industrial agreement I—The1 —The only way is by filing a reference attaching them to the award. |1. !.< it not your experience that it all devolves upon a few active employers to deal with the question as against others who may be employing more men | Yes. frequently. 15. What do you suggest to make these people active in the matter.' -Well, you understand that clause 67 of the Act is not ours. It was agreed to as a sort of compromise. We say that it should be amended a little so as to give power for the parties to have the agreement made into an award, if all who are engaged in the industry in the particular district or part of the district affected ate cited. 16. If it were proved that tic people represented a majority of the workers in any agreement, would you be willing that the agreement should be riled, and go to the Court?— Only if the Court has power to ascertain that the parties who should be cited are cited. 17. An industrial agreement might be entered into for the pin-pose of going to the Court to make it a Dominion award : that is conceivable, is it not J —Quite. 18. We had a case the other day in Dunedin in connection witli the boiler-workers, and inexperience in the iron trade is that the fighting involved has been with two or three firms. The firms in Hawke's Bay, West Coast, and Taranaki, take very little interest in a case and leave the