W. PKYOK.J

9

L—da

parties in the centre to deal with it. We find just as much difficulty- in dealing with the matter, and would like to know what steps you propose to alter that state of things? Our suggestion is that in turning an indutrial agreement into an award every employer should first be served with a copy of the demands. That would remove a good deal of the apathy on the part of the employers. When you entered into that agreement in Dunedin the probability is that only those in the centres knew anything about it. 19. What do you suggest in areas that have no organization to meet the difficulty? Would you suggest any initiation from the Department? These outside people are bound to be parties to a Dominion award and yet they have no organization?— Under a Dominion award by the provision we propose they would be brought in. It is only necessary that industrial associations shall be in existence, and an industrial association can consist of two unii 20. They can only be brought in after being cited by some specific means? —Yes. 21. If they did not comply with that citation would they be brought in? —Yes, as long as they got notice. 22. You say there is no appeal from the decision of a Magistrate?— Yes, we have under certain conditions, but which in certain cases are blocked in the Bill. What we want is the free right of appeal. 2.'!. You want it more as a matter of principle than as a matter of amount? —Yes, the matter of pounds, shillings, and pence does not enter into it at all. 24. Mr. Fraser.] In one part of your evidence you laid stress upon the necessity of notifying every one concerned in regard to a disagreement?— Yes. 25. What I want to know is this : under clause 6, assuming it to be passed into law, to whom does the clerk send notice—to the associations?—No, it says that the Clerk shall send notice only to Clerks of Awards in tin other districts affected. We say the individuals should have notice. 26. Who are the parties, the asociations or individuals? —Individuals. There is a provision in the Act at present, and that is being done by publication in the local Press. It is deemed to be sufficient by the Department of Labour, but we say that every party should get. a copy. I showed that in connection with the shearers' dispute there were two thousand employers. If there had been any publication, all that we should have had would have been a resume of the award in the local papers —nowhere else —and unfortunately the newspapers seem to have the faculty of leaving out the most important points. They do not understand the conditions, and we say the present custom is utterly inadequate and should be altered, especially if this thing is going through. We want notice sent to each of the parties and the association. 27. What do you mean by the party? —Each employer and the employees' union on the otherside. 28. You do not suggest that the Clerk should have to send the notice to each member of the union—it is not practicable? —I say that if you are going to insist upon 2,824 people being cited it is only fair that you should give them notice so that they may disagree if they desire to. We suggest that any one notice of disagreement should be sufficient to send the case on to Court, 29. Should not also the question of citation be confined to representative bodies? —It could not be in the case of employers. Our representative bodies are the employers' associations. The condition under which we work necessitates our having just one representative body in the Wellington District. There are few industrial unions of the employers, and the employers' associations cannot register under the Act. 30. Mr. Glover.] I understood you to say that the Arbitration Court exceeded its jurisdiction?— No. What we want is that there should be nothing put into the Act to compel the Court to exceed its jurisdiction. The Trades and Labour Council's suggestion in section 3 is that the Court should be compelled to make an award whether the award is or is not, in the opinion of the Court, for the public good. I said that the Court had never exceeded its jurisdiction. 31. Has the Judge of the Arbitration Court ever made comments from the Bench with regard to people who had no right of reply?—l have always had the right of reply when I thought he made remarks he should not have made; but I do not want to discuss the Arbitration Court Bench. 32. You said something about Dominion disputes being held in one centre: do you think it would be advisable? —We>-are not suggesting that all the Dominion disputes should be held in one centre, but in such centre or centres as the parties may agree upon, or, in the event of no agreement, as the Court may direct. We think it is cheaper to bring the witnesses to one centre. In connection with the woollen-mills dispute, we have already arranged to have the matter decided in either Christohurch or Wellington; and in connection with the Typographical Association it will, I think, be by agreement of the parties in Wellington. 33. Would it not apply to people in Auckland coining down here? —It is a very simple thing for- Auckland people to visit Wellington. It is all a matter of convenience. 34. You surprised me by stating that workers' representatives in Auckland have stated that the Court should not sit there although it is five months since it went to Auckland? —I said that was my advice from Auckland. 35. Mr. McLaren.] With regard to subclause (2) of clause 6 of the Bill, you recognize that it is to prevent parties who disagree sending their case on to the Court?—No; but you send them on to the Court without the parties being notified. 36. Does that not apply to the officials of the employers not notifying the employers?—No; the majority of those generally cited are not affected by the award. They are not employers of labour, and we have to carry that weight all the time. 37. You sketched the process by which a Dominion award would be arrived at from the stage of conference to the Arbitration Court proceedings : in that process are not the body of employers represented really by delegates or representatives?— Yes, the same as the unions are.

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