I.— 9b.

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|\V. PBYOB.

38. In this conference on both sides, do you not expect the parties concerned to be bound by whatever decision is arrived at? —If they arrive at an agreement, certainly. Of course, very often in big disputes you give way tentatively on one point while you discuss another point, and make agreement on these points dependent upon a full settlement being reached. 39. You expect the respective parties of employers and workers to be bound by their representatives in the agreement they arrive at? —Yes, I would not take part in a conference unless that was the understanding. 40. If that is so, should not the employers who neglect any notice be bound? —You have not got a full representation of the parties. You must not tangle me up with a conference of the pat ties with those who arc compelled to go before a Court of law. They are two different things. 41. Take the case you particularly adduced —that of the shearers : you say that was dealt with by ten gentlemen with yourself?— Yes. 42. Did you not represent the interests of hundreds of employers whom you had never met or- discussed the matter- with—is that so? —Yes. 43. And you expected as a result of that conference that they would be bound by their- representative? —Yes, not that they should be bound by the recommendations of the Conciliation Council. You know better than that You are either purposely confusing the matter or doing it in ignorance of the state of affairs. Ido not think you are speaking in ignorance. 44. You have said that you expected these employers, hundreds of whom you say were never consulted ?—I did not say " hundreds of whom were never consulted." 45. You expected the decisions of the representatives in agreement to be binding?—lf you mean by that, any agreement that was arrived at by the representatives of the employers and the representatives of the unions in private conference, then Yes; but if you mean by that, any recommendations that the Conciliation Council might make, then No. 4C. That is what 1 wished to arrive at. Why should not the recommendations of a Conciliation Council, where there are practical assessors representing the parties on each side, not be binding as the decision of representatives in conference? —Because you are compelled to appoint assessors to start with by the process of law, and you may not at that time be able to get the assessors you want. In the great majority of cases there are ten or a dozen different classes of businesses, and you have only three representatives, and therefore only representative of three businesses out of that ten or a dozen. I heard it said that in the warehousemen's case there are twenty-one sections. 47. There would be thirteen on each side representing each Conciliation Council : you referred to that as being a picnic? —Yes. I.S. Would that number not. be ample to make a recommendation a binding decision on all the parties'( —Never will we agree to bind all the employers in an industry where it is a case of compulsion to appoint assessors. J!). You do not suggest that they are compelled to appoint any particular persons?— They will be compelled to appoint these assessors whether they desire to do so or not. The difference between a conference an amicable arrangement between the parties—and the Conciliation Council is that when a conference is amicably arranged between the parties —those who go there are representatives of all the interests affected, and they go there with a definite power from their people to agree or not to agree, as the case may be. They know how far they may go. There is no compulsion. The people themselves are not being sent there at all, but are there in a representative way. In that case their decision should be binding as a matter of honour. But if you have a Council set up bj process of law. whether you want to or not, and whether you think that is the best thine or not, you are compelled to appoint three or six people who do not represent you probably, and that they should be able to bind you through the recommendations is opposed to a British sense of fair play. 50. In what sense can they be said not to represent the bodies any more than the men appointed to a conference? —In a conference everything is done in a friendly way. You can either refuse that conference or accept it. If you accept it it is very different to attending a Conciliation Council where you are practically compelled to attend. 51. Under subclause (2) of clause 4 is it not contemplated that the dispute should be really dealt with in a district in which a dispute has arisen—" the districts to which the dispute relates shall be deemed for the purpose of the dispute to be one district." Does that not invalidate your suggestion of a roving commission? —You see there is a provision made for a Commissioner to visit the other districts. The proposed amendment to section 29, I think it is, puts your argument right out. Section 29 of the 1908 amendment restricts the Commissioner to his own district, while the proposed amendment in section 4, subsection (2), expressly removes that restriction and gives the Commissioner- and the Council power to sit and take evidence in other districts. Subsection (3), it seems to me, is framed in order to give him the power to go outside of his district, so that the Bill is designed with the intention of giving these Councillors power to visit the different districts over which the award is to apply : and it is quite necessary. 52. It does not bind either Council or Court to travel? —I am only judging it from the point of view of human nature. Our experience is that where the opportunity is given of Government expenditure it is taken advantage of. 53. In the case of disputes this year, has there been a tendency to extravagance in that way? There has not been the opportunity. 54. With reference to your suggestion about advertising notice of appeal for registration and the right of protest I—Not1 —Not appeal —notice of application. 55. Do you suggest that the law should be amended in this direction as affecting all industries?—it would have to he general if at all.