1.—13 a.

44

iT. H. EASTKJII-'IKI.D.

22. They recommended an assessor? —Practically the Cambridge system is to appoint one internal examiner and one external examiner. 23. Is not that Die general rule? —The external examiner is only like a professor in any of the colleges here. He i.s a man who is also teaching. 24. Do you see any objection to drawing an assessor from Australia? —I think it is a system which might work extremely well, providing he came over to do the work 25. My question assumed that?—l did not know that. He would certainly be preferable to the present system. 26. I read the pamphlet, and it left an impression on my mind that the Reform Association was against evening work. Will you read part of page 41 1 —" By the low level of matriculation " — I agree with that; "by the low standard of the degree" — 1 agree with that; "by creating false impressions as to what university work means, the Senate has thrown the bulk of this evening work in the North Island not on mature men and women, but on boys and girls of school age." 1 agree with that. "What ii amounts to is this: Growing boys and girls, whose proper place is in the secondary school, are being encouraged to combine night-work at a college with office or teaching work by day. In many cases this must mean a waste of the greatest asset of the community, the physical and intellectual strength of its future citizens. Under the circumstances it is not surprising that a great deal of the work done in the University Colleges is below University standard, or that an official New Zealand report should characterize the requirements of the New Zealand University B.A. as more or less on a level with those of the leaving certificates of secondaryschools in other countries." 27. You indorse thai statement? — Yes, on the whole. 28. Is that not an indictment against evening work? —No; it is a recognition of the fact that you cannot get the same value for the nation from half-timers as you can from those who put their main energ}- into their work. 'I lie Dominion needs very highly trained men, and the evening student is undoubtedly at a disadvantage in getting the highest training. I have certainly got the best work out oi' the people who work by day. Ido not know how the employers find it, but I will illustrate what is at present occurring. I have a student who goes to work at 8 o'clock in the morning and works until 5, and then at night works in my laboratory till 11.30. If the man went on like that for three years he would probably break down. Fortunately, he is an athlete. 29. Have you any instance of a breakdown?—l do not think they are very common, but I have had a few. 30. In the case of evening work are students spending enough time over the preparation? — No; the day students naturally give more time to preparation than those who come in as evening students. 31. Is it your experience that the evening students are giving four years? —I think that is the usual thing, but I have not analysed the figures. 1 imagine that is so. 32. How do you manage with your chemistry classes with both day and night work? —Being one of the original professors here I am in the fortunate position of putting in pass degree work at 5 o'clock, which can be attended by day or night students; but in order to get more time I have to give a lecture on Saturday morning, which 1 give at !) o'clock, and I am glad to say that the employers have often allowed the students to come at 9 o'clock. 1 hold no honours lecture later than 4 o'clock. 33. What happens in the other subjects—the Professor of Biology is not so fortunate as to be able to give a lecture at 5 o'clock which would suit both the day and the night students?—l have never inquired. I know si,me professors get there at 9 o'clock in the morning and leave somewhere about midnight. 34. Is it possible to carry on both day and night work satisfactorily with the staff you now have? —No. The teaching staffs in all the colleges are undermanned already. 35. If we carry on both you must have more staff?— Yes. 36. Are you satisfied with Mr. Kirk's evidence that night-work can be done by professors whose qualifications are inferior? —What he suggests is to a large extent the custom in those universities which give both day and night work. The professor gives most of the day lectures and a few night lectures. The junior professor takes some teaching by day and the larger number of the evening lectures. I should prefer the professor giving a short course in the evening dealing with special subjects; but opinions differ as to whether the professor should give the elementary or advanced lectures. I am inclined to think that the foundation should be laid by tint most highly skilled teacher. Of course, lam not going to shift from my ."> "'clock arrangement so long as I can continue it. 37. The Chairman.] Speaking generally, you support the statements in the pamphlet?— Generally, I do. 38. You made some reference to persons rising from the ranks and joining close corporations outside of the universities? —Yes. 39. Did I understand you to say that the present system of examination encouraged teachers and students to cram for the examination? —I think so. If you have a man who has the spirit of a " crammer " you will not easily circumvent him. The present system seems to give an extra chance of that —possibly not in medicine, because there you get the practical and viva voce examination, and if it is found that a man is seeking to get through by the least amount of work he gets pulled up. I know men who have had to leave our University Colleges because they are always trying to work on the minimum. 40. Mr. Hardy.] What is the estimated value of the New Zealand degree compared with that of Oxford and Cambridge?—lt is very hard to make a comparison, because a man who takes a pass degree in Cambridge is generally looked upon as an incompetent. The majority of the people at Cambridge are taking honours. The pass degree men there are either intellectually