T. H. EASTEBFIELD.

45

1.—13 a.

incompetent, or they have gone there for the sake of athletics, or for social purposes. They are very useful, because they bring in fees, and cost the University very little. They are milch-cows. In England a man with a pass degree finds ii hard to gel an appointment as a schoolmaster in a good school—unless he is an athlete. 41. You really think, then, there is some value in the New Zealand degree? -Yes, it means that the student baa passed an examination in a number of subjects. 42. You think that if the proposals you have set forth in this pamphlet are agreed to they will in some measure strengthen the New Zealand degree?— Yes. 43. And there will not then be a great difference between our degree and the English degree? There will be a big difference in the honours degree. 44. [f these proposals are given effect to we might hope that the honours degree will improve later on? —Yes, 1 am certain of it. 45. You would not recommend a New-Zealander to semi his boy or girl to Oxford or Cambridge so lout; as we have a University in New Zealand/— Apart from the eocial side and general culture iii' a Home university, a man of genius lias a far better opportunity of development there, for he will be surrounded by teachers of every school of thought. I cannol hope in my lifetime to have at the outside more than three people assisting me in teaching ehemistrv in Wellington. At present 1 have ade astrator at £100 a year, but he is a student at the same time. But at Cambridge you have a verj large number of lecturers and demonstrators in each scientific subject. In my day there were seventeen officially recognized teachers of chemistry, besides a number of assistant demonstrators, and the staff has now been greatly increased. This alone makes a body of scientific thought which is of the greatest value to the student, and is of far greater importance to him, if he is alert, than passing through the hands of one man such as our profeseors, who become more or less behindhand through lack of contact with other workers in their own line. 4(i. Are you a believer in self-help? —Yes, 1 am. 47. Then you are a great advocate for this research-work ! — Yes. 48. Can you not set your students to work themselves, and by that means carry out their own ideals —that is, carry out work on their own account, just as you said you were stimulated whilst still an elementary student? — Supposing I said to my students, " I am not going to give you any teaching at all; you must find something out for yourself," 1 think they would find their way out of the building. 49. 1 think you said the New Zealand degrees were equal to those of Oxford and Cambridge? —No, I did not. I said the New Zealand pass degree is of greater value in getting a billet in New Zealand than the pass degree of Oxford or Cambridge in getting a billet in England. 50. I hope you have a higher ideal than that your pupils should be able to get a billet? — That I have already made clear. 51. Can you say the New Zealand University will be as good for the youth of New Zealand as those of Oxford and Cambridge? —The point 1 have made is that with a University with such facilities as we have w< eai t expect for many many years, if ever, to get anything to compare with Oxford or Cambridge, or even with the newer English universities. When we find postgraduates from all parts of the world are gravitating to Cambridge for further study, it would be presumption on my part to say that if anj" particular proposal is carried we shall have just as good a university here. 52. Would it not be better to do without the university system and merely prepare boys for the purp.ise of sending them to the seats of learning in England, where they would get so much of value to them in after-life? —No, because of the great influence which a properly conducted university has upon the community in which it is situate. 53. The difference between Oxford and Cambridge Universities and the New Zealand University is merely the gilt-edge which Oxford and Cambridge Universities are aide to put on a young fellow's degree? —No. I think you are trying to " pull my leg." .1. Allan Thomson examined. (No. 14.) 1. Mr. HerdmanJ] What are you?—l am a graduate Senior Scholar. Exhibition Scholar, and Rhodes Scholar of the University of New Zealand, and an Associate of the Otago School of Mines. lam a graduate and Burdett-Coutts Scholar of the University of Oxford, and have been a research student in the universities of Paris and Sydney. I have been a lecturer of St. John's College, Oxford, and a demonstrator of Oxford I 'niversity. 1 have refused an appointment as lecturer in Victoria College, Welling! >n. 1 may thus claim to have had considerable university experience. The evidence which I wish to bring before the Committee bears on four points: (1) The value of the system of external examiners; (2) the system of government of the University; (3) the low salaries offered to professors; (4) the requisitions for keeping terms. (1.) The value of the s\stem of external examiners : (a.) Does it raise the standard of study? (6.) Does it enhance the estimation in which the degree is held? My answer to both these points is No. (a.) It is obvious that the standard of stud} - will not exceed the standard set in (he examinations. I hope to show that the standard of examinations is lower than that of Oxford and other ISritish universities. At the same time I am glad to give testimony to my experience that the standard of teaching, except where it is hampered by the degree regulations, was in no wise inferior in Otago to that in Oxford in most subjects I took, especially in geology. My personal experience in studying geology both at Otago and at Oxford shows two things; firstly, that in New Zealand, not knowing the peculiarities of the examiner, it is necessary to attempt to cover all branches of the subject; but, secondly, notwithstanding this, the standard required in New Zealand is considerably less than that in Oxford. 1 was in the peculiar position of studying two years at Oxford under the very professor by whom I was examined in New Zealand; but even with my previous knowledge of the subject, and with an insight into the special branches of geology in which my examiner was interested, I found it necessary to put in a year's hard work to keep up