417

A.-4

19 June, 1911.] British and Foreign Shipping. [11th Day, Sir JOSEPH WARD — cont. that position which l inaicated Dexore tnat nas arisen, and so is each of the sen-governing uonimions powerless to meet a position similar to tnat it it arises in tneir country, n nas arisen in ours and called for legislation, and tnereiore tnat diuicuity exists nere now, and i am very anxious indeed to nave sometnmg done to meet it. 1 want to make tne position quite clear about tins distinction between the racial and tne labour side ol tins proposition, if we were proposing legislation or suggesting by tnis Resolution something that was dealing witn tne racial question of Uritish subjects in India, then tne matter would be upon an entirely different basis, But it is undeniable that this is an economic question, and in all economic questions in our self-governing Dominions, and in India too, each of our countries reserves the undoubted ngnt to have its laws applicable to the economic requirements and conditions of the respective portions, and so does Great Britain. It is from the economic standpoint that iam asking that we should have the power to deal with a question of this sort as meets the requirements of our country. For instance, to show there is no racial question raised in this Resolution, I want to say that if a ship came down to our country manned by white British crews, not by coloured crews at all, but the owners of the ship were able to obtain officers and men at a low rate of wage out of comparison with what the ruling rate of wage was, we want exactly the same power to apply to them, and we have already tried that against a local steamship company with a white crew. We had them brought before the Arbitration Court with a view to having an equal condition of affairs existing on competitive ships manned by white crews to ensure the preservation of the conditions that the labour laws of our country require shipowners to meet in connection with the manning of their ships. Those ships were not registered in New Zealand. . Although it was very interesting indeed to hear what Lord Crewe put before us regarding the general responsibility of the Empire with regard to British subjects in India, I want to again make it clear that that side of the colour question in its application to British subjects in the Indian Empire is not in any way dealt with in this Resolution nor in any way interfered with in the two clauses in the Bill which is awaiting Royal Assent at the present moment. England itself reserves the right to do that very thing; it has on the Statute Book now 7 the power to do it, and puts into operation the power which lam asking should apply to New Zealand. You have an Act upon your Statute Book here under which you can prevent anybody from any other country, or prevent your own people as a matter of fact, within the bounds of Great Britain and Ireland, from living in hovels. You can, under your Public Health Act, prevent Indian subjects who land here from doing what you think ought not to be done in your country, although in India itself they may live under conditions which you take exception to. You pass legislation to enable you to deal with matters of that kind so far as England is concerned. That is not looked upon as being a blow at the colour of the British subjects who are in India, and I want to make it quite clear that this proposal I am submitting to the Conference for consideration is no more a blow at colour than that is. So for that reason I want to remove that aspect of the matter entirely from the consideration of the Conference. In reply to the statement made by Lord Crewe, I desire to say that I recognise, as the right honourable gentleman does, that if you have a section of the British world that can live very cheaply compared with a w T hite man, and whose responsibilities are not so great, and if you cannot preserve the conditions so as to make it possible for the white man to live, and if you cannot alter the laws under which the coloured section of the British race can live, you are certainly going to bring disaster in the wake of the white man. Although that portion of the race may be able to live under good conditions and have no weakening of their physical condition as vegetarians or living upon rice, it does not follow that because they are able to do that verse they should force that condition of living on the white men who cannot. Out in our country they certainly cannot live as vegetarians, except an odd one here and there; I believe those who do get on all right, but hard working men cannot do so, and as a general rule do not; whether they can or not they do not live in that way. So that after all it does come back to the important point which I referred to