I—l3a.

16

PROFESSOR HUNTKR.

examination I—ld1 — Id the evidence of the former inquiry vmi will find an illustration from lluj \\ eish system of examination. Generally the position adopted in most universities under this system is that if a teacher felt that a man had a reasonably gQpd chance of passing the examination he was sent up. Ido not think there is any doubt that that was the position in London, and I think it is the position here. 6. Knowing your own students intimately and their work throughout the year, you would have no difficulty at all in distinguishing between deserving men and others?— No. 1 think that, haying had four years' acquaintance with a student, I am in a better position than the man n\ Home who judges him on a three-hours paper. 7. And that with the internal examination rather than the external examination then- would lie much less likelihood of a man making a bad pass? —Undoubtedly. 8.- You would judge him on the results of the whole work rather than on the results of the one examination I—Yes,1 —Yes, undoubtedly. 9. Mi\ McCallum.] Can yon give the Committee, Professor Hunter, any instance of the University Council expressing dissatisfaction as to the work of a professor by reason of his not having obtained a fair proportion of passes in the examinations?—[ cannot give evidence of my own knowledge, but 1 know of cases from hearsay. 1(1. Take Victoria College: have you ever heard of any dissatisfaction being expressed by pour own College) — No. The only ease that I can call to mind was the case of a Professor of Law. 11. Now take his ease : was it Ix'cause he did not succeed iii irft 1 intr passes.' Nβ, Ido not think it had anything to do with that. 1 should say in that case that it had nothing to do with nut getting passes, lint there are other eases in New Zealand where it has been said. 12. The answer to that, of course, would be that they would not renew his appointment. The College Council would make no complaint probably such as the Inspector of Schools would, bul at the end of five years lie would not be reappointed I — That is a very serious thing for a University to do. 13. I quite see yon are iml getting justice in regard to past examinations, but what argument can you give to this Committee if it is not a eorrec* representation of your work?— Our point is not that the present system of examination may be used as a reflection on the teacher, but we do not think thai any system of examination might to be used for testing the teacher. 11. Is it because you fear you will be wrongly judged by the results of this external examination .' —No, not at all. Speaking from my own point of view, if I were to considi rmy own interests I would not be in this movement at all; I would he on the other side. I only mention thai in answer to your question. The whole point you will find is thai it is a matte, of the education of the students. l">. Could you professors suggest a differentiation in certain degrees? Certain degrees must come from the Home professors until we have our own professors from the four colleges, but could we not have a compromise in that way? You mentioned that Professor Clrich, of Dunedin, had given his own degree, (.'an you not give us a list of subjects in which we could have both external and internal examinations? —We have that already in a way, but it is not a ver\ desirable way. Take, for instance, domestic science: their is a degree for domestic science, but then they have a diploma lor a certain course and a diploma for another course. The diploma is given purely liv the teaching staff, and the degree by the teachers acting with assessors. If there is a feeling, ami that feeling may be sound, that it is unwise to have an examining Hoard of four professors in any subject to do the work, thy best way would be to have a Board composed of the professors and an outsider, and give the outsider the power of veto the same as he has in Wales. I do not think there would be any objection to that. The only question is that you are increasing tin , expense, and we think it is a reflection "ii the appointments of the past if, having got four men. ii is impossible to trust them without associating another man with them. I do not object to that system, but there is the extra expense. I am speaking only for myself on this point. IC. I want to be satisfied before supporting the setting-up of a Royal Commission that the standard of our degrees is maintained?— Might I convince yon in this way: I take all those men I mentioned—Maolauriq, Connall, and others; most of them hold New Zealand degrees, and I ask, is it reasonable to think that they themselves are going to undermine the New Zealand degree] I take Dr. Allan Thomson, the first Rhodes scholar here: is he going to undermine his own degree? 1 take my own case: I hold only a New Zealand degree, and is it Likely thai 1 am going to undermine my own degree? IT. Hut you will have a Standing, and yon can turn round and say. " I goi mv degree in the severe days"?—] believe that argument has actually been used by some people in London. Mut the point is that I do not believe the University is going to fool the general public; the public is going to judge the University in the same wav as it judges anything else, not by the label on the goods but by the quality. 18. I do not appreciate that argument. You must take the face value—we have not the time to go into each man's qualifications?—l feel that if you were wise in appointing your pro lessor you would consider who have trained him—you do not consider his degree mainly. A man, for example, in a big university might get the degree of the university anil migh< be trained by famous teachers or by very inferior teachers. 19. [t is a spur t<l 'he professor—you are putting your professors on far too high a standard id' human nature.' I can say absolutely that the external examination is not a spur to any man. Let me take the illustration of the teaching of physics in a University college in New Zealand under the external examination. That examination in physics does not require any manipulation at all. The student passes a paper examination in physics, and 1 say that in the interna! examination that is impossible. I lake my own ease, and I say that it is not the external system that induces me to deal with the newer development in psychology which is not deal, with in the