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1.—13 a.

SIR E. STOUT.j

examiners, and if you look at scheme B you will see, except there is a registering body, the professors are to have practically the initiative, and if you bring in such a scheme as B, for example, what will be the result J The expense will be enormous — it will be three times the amount of the expense now. You must understand that we are differently situated from other universities. Take, for example, an analogous university, the University of Wales. 1 had a letter from the Registrar detailing what they did there. They are within a few hours of each other, and supposing they wanted to meet at Aberystwith the people from Bangor and Cardiff could go to Aberystwith at small expense, ami they would only need to meet for one or two days perhaps twice a year. You could not do that in the case of Auckland or those coming from Otago. The expense would be very great. I venture to say that if you had the B system in force your administration would cost you at least double or treble what it is costing now, and 1 think it is costing now quite enough. 27. Do you think the present system of examination by British professors is satisfactory .' —1 think it is, but lam not wedded to that. I have never said lam not willing that the examinations should be conducted by any one fit to conduct them —I do not care whether in England or elsewhere. 1 have never said we should confine our examinations to England. If we 'had proficient men in New Zealand I should prefer to have the examinations here, but my point is thai the teacher should qo< examine his own pupils. 28. Do you not think that the teacher's knowledge of what the student has done in his classenables him to form a better opinion of that student to pass an examination? —-No, because if a man cannot pass an examination tie ought not to get his degree, if he has not the knowledge that he can utilize, because that is what an examination means. If a man was on the borderline then we would allow the professor's record of his work to count, and we allow it now. If a man was on the border-line with his pass work I would allow the report from the professor to count, but I would not go further than that. 29. You believe the test of the student's ability is his ability to pass an examination?— No, it is the only public test we know. We know perfectly well that a pupil who cannot pass an examination may be a very fit man, but he is not entitled to a degree merely because he is fit and proficient; he tnusi prove to all the world that he is fit and proficient, and you can only say that by seeing he lias the knowledge, and the examination brings that out. .'iO. And one man on behalf of the world tests his knowledge thai is the examiner? —No doubt. 31. Well, would not the professor be best fitted?—No, because he is judging his own work, and I do not think it is fair to put him in that position : ami a high-minded professor would like not to do it, as Professor Oman said in regard to what happened in secondary schools. I will give you an illustration : I had a letter from Dr. Giles, who is .Master of Emmanuel College. Cambridge. He was speaking to me about other things, and I never asked him about examinations; but he told me the reason he had not answered my letter was that he had been in Greece and had come home and was going to lecture on some phase of Greek archaeology during the term, and he said, "I have had some trouble and have been searching for an examine']-. As T am the lecturer I could not be the examiner, and I had to go up to London, and at last ] pot one from the Indian Office." That is his view of his duty. 32. Your feeling is that the professors could not be trusted?—l do not think it would be satisfactory to the public. If you are to apply the principle of teachers being examiners, then yon will have to apply it in both the secondary and primary schools. 33. The practice has years been followed in the primary schools?— Yes, but that is no test, of the teacher's work, only so far as passing the pupils into a higher class; and Inspectors have not been abolished. 34. llmi. Mr. Allen.'] I gather from what you said, Sir Robert, that you are not satisfied with the results of the University work, especially with regard to the number that are taking the science course? —No, I think it is very disappointing. 1 think something should be done to encourage more to take up science. '■')'). Then may we take it that you agree or disagree with the Senate when at its last meeting it resolved to submit the question of the constitution to a committee of the Senate itself? — Ido not think the altering of the constitution of the Senate will have any advantage. I do not agree witli the Senate in that respect. Ido not object to it hearing what is to be heard from the various bodies and students. My opinion is that the Senate constitution is good enough—it does not require any alteration. 36. You recollect what was done two years ago in appointing a conference of Professorial Hoards, of which the Senate in the next year disapproved?— Yes, because what did they do? Instead of drawing up a syllabus of the studies and doing what they were supposed to have done, they first of all wanted to abolish the Bachelor of Science degree, which would have beer another blow to science; and then, what next? They went on to deal with what they thought practical alterations in the constitution. They also did not give us any record of their votings—they carefully kept that from the Senate. The report from those who were present at the conference was not adopted. It was only a waste of money. The cost was about £157 for nothing, and I do not see why the funds of the University should be spent in that way. 37. Is the question of Bachelor of Science and Bachelor of Arts degrees satisfactory from your point of view at present?— Well. I think it is satisfactory in this manner: that if you were to have no Bachelor of Science degree you would lower your science pupils to what you have now. It has worked very well in the past, but Ido not say it is a perfect system. If you propose that each Bachelor of Arts should take a science subject then it might work. 38. Do I take it, then, your opinion would be that with the Bachelor of Arts degree alone it should include a scientific subject?—l do think so.