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1160. Had you any knowledge of the qualifications held by the deputies here for testing for gas ? -Not all. 1161. What right had you then to say that the company had no experienced men in regard to gas-testing ? —All the New Zealand collieries are the same. 1162. It was couched in general terms ?—lt was based upon my great knowledge of the miners of New Zealand. There were no possible means of learning about gas-testing here. There are from 140 to 150 collieries in this country, and in only two of them are the men likely to see firedamp—at Kaitangata and here. 1163. But if deputies had been trained at Home that would not apply to them ; you were not aware of that fact ?—No, I did not know what you state. 1164. You suggested that the company is putting in a new fan because the present one is insufficient ?—They have put in a fan at the Extended Mine which is four or five times as large as the present one at Ralph's, proving that the fan at Ralph's is insufficient. 1165. Cannot you allow in the size of the fan for future developments ?- Four or five times is a great difference ; the company would not sink its capital in such a fan if it were not necessary. 1166. If you were advising the company as to the size of the fan to put in, would you not make provision for a good long way ahead ?-—I would have installed a large fan at the start. 1167. The decision to install a large fan was arrived at long before the explosion ?—I do not know when it was arrived at. 1168. Do you not know that the decision to install a large fan was come to before the explosion ? —I did not know ; in fact, 1 do not know yet that such decision had been arrived at. 1169. You are aware that the new shaft has been sunk at Ralph's Mine ? —I have heard so. 1170. For the purpose of installing a new fan- -there is machinery being installed there ?- J am not aware of it. lam rather short-sighted, but tell me where it is. 1171. Were you not aware that new machinery was being erected at Ralph's Mine ?- I think the Inspector reported it, but I have not seen the new shaft. 1172. I do not think the machinery now being installed is the machinery for the new fan ? — Where abouts is this mysterious place ? 1173. Near the shaft ?—I do not know it. 1174. It is a proper thing to make provision for future developments by putting in a new fan ? -Yes, it is. Ido not think this disaster would have happened if you had had an efficient fan and adequate ventilation. 1175. In regard to Special Rule 1, which provides that the manager shall be responsible for the appointment of a sufficient number of competent persons to carry out the requirements of the Coalmines Acts and the special rules, and also to see that the working of the mine is carried on with all reasonable provisions for the safety of the .persons employed, do you know what number of persons the company employs ? -—No, but Mr. Fletcher has told me there are 160 in Ralph's Mine. 1176. Do you know what is the number of persons, such as deputies and so on, who are employed to see that the provisions of the Act are carried out ? —I do not know. 1177. You have no means of finding out how many men are employed in this mine ? As regards the number of officials, I do not know. 1178. When you were asked as to whether there was anything you could have done in order to remedy the state of things you knew to exist in this mine, I understood you to say that in regard to the Kaitangata Mine you thought certain tilings ought to be done respecting the explosives used ?— Yes, but not as regards explosives. 1179. What was the nature of your reference to Kaitangata ? Was it in regard to permitted explosives ?—No, it was as regards the dust—both at Kaitangata and Nightcaps. I have written to Mr. Green, Inspector of Mines, and he is sending samples of coaldust from both mines for analysis. 1180. Supposing you get them analysed, and find them dangerous, what are you going to do if the new Act is not in force ?- -We will have to do the best we can. 1181. Who ? -The Inspector of Mines and the Government. I am not a responsible official as far as the statutes are concerned. 1182. I understood you to say that if there is any point in regard to which an Inspector of Mines ought to take some action, you would call the attention of the Under-Secretary to it, and he could write to the Inspector, and that sometimes you draft the letters ?- When the Under-Secretary has asked me, yes. 1183. If you had gone to the Under-Secretary and said, "' I am in great trouble about the Taupiri mines. I think a letter ought to be written at once to Mr. Bennie, and he should immediately communicate to the manager what I have told you in regard to the condition of the mine," would not that have got such a letter written ?—I do not know. I wrote to Inspector Bennie as a personal friend would write, and why are you trying to belittle me for it ? 1184. I have given you full credit for what you have done. lam only suggesting that you could have carried it a little further ?■ -I suppose I should have taken a gun to him., 1185. Now, Mr. Reed, you have made a reference to the company not paying its debts. I would like to understand what you referred to ?—They were working under the river on Crown land. They had not got it on a proper lease. 1186. Are you referring to the case Mueller v. Taupiri Coal-mines (Limited) ? Are you aware that that is something like ten years ago ? —It might have been ten years ago. 1.187. Are you aware that it went to the Court of Appeal to decide whether the river-bed was Crown land ? —I do not know. 1188. Why do you make such statements as that the company is not paying its debts ?- It proved that you were taking something that did not belong to you.