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1189. You charge the company with doing something which they were not entitled to do ?— 1 referred to the time when the company were taking Crown coal without payment of royalty. 1190. The question in dispute was as to whether the river-bed was Crown land or not, and the Court of Appeal decided it was Crown land. The company, after the decision, took out a lease and paid everything it was asked to pay ? —Because it was made to. 1191. We have had some remarks from you in regard to the question of permitted explosives ? —Yes. You are now using flame-producing explosives. .1.192. That explosive known as monobel ?—lt is not a Home Office permitted explosive. 1193. Do you know whether there is any permitted explosives in New Zealand at the present time ?—I am not aware. 1194. Do you know whether there are any permitted explosives in Australasia at the present time '. lam not aware. 1195. If the company has made inquiries and can get no permitted explosives in Australasia. do you say that it is the duty of the company to close down the Extended Mine ?- -Yes ; if I had the power I would close it down to-morrow, because you are risking the lives of your men in it. A blownout shot amongst that dust might create another holocaust, and 1 think the company ought to be ashamed to defy the Inspector's orders in this matter so shortly after a disastrous explosion. 1 L 96. Monobel was permitted to be used ?—-That is a misstatement. 1197. Did not Inspector Bennie give permission to use monobel ?■ In his first letter, no ; but then somebody came to him and misled him, and he added it to his list afterwards. They told him that monobel without the numeral was a permitted explosive. When I told him that he had been misled he altered the list by inserting " monobel No. .1 " in place of " monobel," that with the numeral being on the permitted list. 1198. Who do you say misled him ( —Somebody hoodwinked him. Some representative of your company deceived the Inspector. 1199. Are you quite sure that some representative of this company hoodwinked and deceived Mr. Bennie ?■ 1 was told by Mr. Bennie the name of the man. 1200. Are you quite sure that som representative of this company hoodwinked and deceived Mr. Bennie ? -I believe that he did, because I was told so by Mr. Bennie. 1201. What explosives are being used in the Kaitangata Mine ?—I do not know. 1202. Can you tell me what explosives are being used in the State mine ?—Blasting-powder, 1 think; but lam not quite sure. 1203. Is that still being used in the State mine ?—I am not sure. 1204. Have you taken any steps in regard to the State mine ?-- What steps do you suggest ? 1205. In regard to the explosives which are in use there ?- —None whatever at present. 1206. Then, perhaps you are aware that up to this time they are using blasting-powder'?- As far as lam aware. It is a wet mine. 1207. Does that make any difference ?—Quite a great deal as regards the dust problem. 1208. Is there any gas in that mine ?■— Occasionally, 1 believe, they find it. They use safety-lamps, so no doubt there is gas, though I have never seen it. 1209. It is a safety-lamp mine, and they are using blasting-powder ?- -It is a wet mine, and it is bituminous coal, the dust of which is not very inflammable. 1210. Are you satisfied that they should go on using blasting-powder ?—Until I make further investigations and can satisfy myself that it is not a dangerous mine, I think they can safely go on as they are for a time. 1211. Do you say it is a bituminous or semi-bituminous coal ? —ln my opinion, it is a bituminous coal; we class it as one. 1211 a. Is it a true bituminous coal ?—I think so; it has always been so classed in the statistics of the Mines Department, at all events. 12.12. What is the coal at Kaitangata ? —lt is a superior lignite. 1213. And you do not know what explosives they are using there ? —No. 1214. Assuming that they are using blasting-powder, do you propose to take any action >. I told you that the Inspector is sending samples of this coaldust to be tested, and investigations are being rapidly carried out, and upon the result of them depends what action will be taken. It is extremely probable that definite action will be taken. 1215. Has any notice been given to any of these people that this position was likely to arise ? I do not know. 1216. Have you made any inquiry as to whether there are any permitted explosives to be obtained in this Dominion ?— I only know from Mr. Leggo, who has disposed of monobel to the Taupiri Company. 1217. Do you suggest that it was he who misled the company ? —I understand that Mr. Bennie. Mr. Bishop, and Mr. Fletcher went to him, and he told them that monobel without the numeral was a permitted explosive, and they induced Mr. Bennie to add the word " monobel " to his list. His letter had been sent or delivered to the company, and it was returned to Mr. Bennie to add " monobel.'' Mr. Bennie, in his honest way, did so, and the company preceeded to work with it. I came upon the scene and saw Mr. Leggo, and asked him if the explosives they were using were monobel No. 1, and he nodded. The next day I searched the Home Office permitted list, and found that it did not include monobel, but only nronobel No. 1. That list was complete up to 1913. You will find that monobjl does not occur at all on the lists since 1912. When I discovered that it was monobel No. 1 which was on the list, and not monobel, which the company was using, I told Mr. Bennie that he had been deceived. He then drafted a letter to the company stating that monobel No. 1 was the only monobel which was on the permitted list. Mr. Bennie was deceived by these two gentlemen, and I was, perhaps unintentionally, deceived by Mr. Leggo, who is the agent for Nobel's Limited. Monobel is not permitted in England,