H. A. DE LAUTOUR.j

129

H.—l9b

57. You stated that according to the R.A.M.C. regulations the intervals should always be sufficient to render possible the removal of the tents to a new site ? —Yes. 58. Is there any difference between space and intervals? —They are practically the same tiling : I should say they are synonymous. 59. You meant "space" when you said "interval"? —Yes. 60. Now, the photographs you have given to the Commission suggest to you that the tents were too close?— Not merely the photographs, but what I saw 7 with my own eyes. 61. But you suggest that the photographs bear out your observations?— Yes. 62. But you said that the photograph is an actual representation of the effect : did you take into consideration the perspective of the picture?—lt gives an accurate representation of the positions of the tents. 63. Do you think the camera cannot, lie?— They often do. 64. Is not the photograph you have produced giving a misleading idea of the state of affairs?—l do not think so. It gives the same impression as that conveyed to me by my own eyesight. 65. You spoke of the latrines, and said you were told that the camp id' the mounted men of the Third Reinforcements was pitched on the site of the latrines used by the Second Reinforcements : did you make any inquiry about that ? The Chairman: I think he said that part of the hutment, area covered an area that had been occupied by latrines. Mr. Gray: No, sir. Witness: I said that when the Auckland mounted men went into camp they were put on the original site of the men of the Second Reinforcements. Then sickness broke out amongst the Auckland men, and they were shifted across the road in the direction of what has been pointed out as the direction where the trench latrines were. Near that road there was a wire fence, and between the wire fence and the road I have been informed is the site where trench latrines at one time were used by the previous Forces. 66. Mr. Gray.] Did. you satisfy yourself that latrine accommodation had been established in that place? —No. 67. The Chairman.] Your son told you?—l asked him and he pointed in that direction. 68. Mr. Gray.] You said that on one occasion when you went out to the camp you were accompanied by the officer of the day : you do not know- the name of that officer ? -No , T did not inquire, ft was a Monday and a holiday. AATien I and several oilier visitors to the camp got there we found we w 7 ould not be admitted. As there were so many people there, and as it, was a holiday, a message was sent to the Commandant, and he waived the point and lei us go in. 1 told them who I was, and that I had come to see the sample hutment. 69. You are unable to say from your own knowledge that any part of Ihe camp has been placed ou the site of former latrines? —I do not know of my own knowledge, but I had it pointed out that it was in that direction, and that would be the most natural place for them—at the end of the camp, and at the other end also. So that, T was not surprised to be told that the latrines were in that direction. 70. The Chairman.] We may assume that they were there according to your impressions? —Yes. 71. Mr, Gray.] Do you suggest that the site of those latrines are not marked with permanent marks? —Yes. 1 have not seen any marks. 72. There are no marks in this place—in the direction which was pointed out to you?— No; in fact, in that direction is where the present hutments are. 73. What spot are you speaking of when you say there are no permanent marks there? — Between the wire fence and the tents. 74. And assuming there had been latrines established there, you say there were no marks? Of course, there could not have been marks there because it has been roaded and built over. 75. And you still say that of your own knowledge you do not know that latrines had been put there? —I do not know of my own knowledge. 76. The, Chairman.] It will be easy, Mr. Gray, to disprove it, if the doctor is wrong. If it, is desirable to get rid of that point we will call some one who can swear that there were no latrines there?— Yes. 77. Mr. Gray.] You drew a parallel between the Trentham Camp and the camp of troops in Egypt, as shown in the photographs. Your suggestion was that our camp should have been more extended. Do you know that the death-rate among the troops in Egypt, was greater than that at Trentham ?—-I should not think that was at all unlikely. 78. You do not know what, it is?— Not, in the least. The troops sent from here had never been taught how to live when they got to Egypt. 7<). How do you know?— Because they would not get these concreted latrines in Kgypt. They had not been taught here how to live under proper camp conditions: that was one of my objections. 80. The. Chairman.] You mean that the men or the officers had not been taught?— Neither the men nor the officers had been taught, nor the medical men. The extended order of the camp as shown in that photograph of the Egypt encampment might have been adopted at, Trentham. 81. Mr. Gray.] You also say there was plenty of space here at Trentham? —That, is so. There was no sanitary necessity for making a military township of it. 82. You quoted Surgeon-Major Duncan as your authority for your contention that the tents should have been frequently shifted : wdiat is the date of that publication?—lBB6. 83. Thirty years ago, nearly?— Yes.

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