J. FINDLAY.]

167

1.—7.

50. Mr. Talbot.] It has been suggested that the Government could control the meat and shipping business as well : what is your opinion about the Government succeeding in that, the object being in order to combat trust methods? —The Imperial Government could do it, but I do not think the New Zealand could, because I do not think they have any jurisdiction over Iteamers on the English register. 51. The Chairman.] The White Star line, which you say is allied with your company, is yargely controlled by American capital, is it not?— Yea, that is so. About fifteen years ago the International Mercantile Marine acquired a controlling interest in the White Star line, and the Imperial Government was very much perturbed about it; but it was not a purchase of the steamers —it was a purchase of the shares. The White Star line gave a pledge that the steamers would never be transferred from the English register without the permission of the Imperial Government. 52. Your business relationships with the White Star line are not of such a nature that the White Star line could control your line?— They have no controlling interest at all over our line. 53. They cannot dominate it? —Not at all. Our company is an absolutely independent entity. 54. In any way could they force you to do anything but. what your company desired to do? — They could not. They could not say to us "Do this, or Do that," because we control our own company. They have no power to control it. 55. Either legally or by strength of capital?— Neither legally nor by strength of capital. Wasi-iino/pon Irvine Carney sworn and examined. (No. 30.) 1. The Chairman.] You are manager for Armour's? —I am director of Armour and Co. of Australasia (Limited). 2. Carrying on business in New Zealand? —-Yes, sir. 3. Where is your company registered?—ln New Zealand. 4. Registered in New Zealand? —Yes, sir. 5. The Committee would be pleased to hear you if you have any general statement you would like to make? —None whatever. 6. You do not wish to make a statement?—No, not at this time. 7. Have not you expressed a wish to be called before this Committee? —1 have on two occasions. 8. Do you know the objects and the scope of the inquiry?— Only from what I have seen in the papers. 9. Then you have a general knowledge of what is the purpose of the inquiry? —Yes, I have a general knowledge. 10. If you have no statement to make, why have you expressed a wisli to come before the Committee?— Because I knew that it, was dealing with matters in which I am interested. 11. Do you not desire to make a, statement, to the Committee about these matters which interest you and your company?—l .am here to give evidence. If there are any questions which the members of the Committee wish to ask 1 shall be glad to answer them to the best of my ability. 12. Mr. Pearce.] You say, Mr. Carney, that you are one of the board of directors of Armour and Co. (Australasia)? —Yes, I am. 13. Is that the company in New Zealand or the company in Australia, or is it the combined companies of Australia and New Zealand? —We have no combined Australian and New Zealand company. We are a registered company in New Zealand. 14. Is not there an Australian company?—No, sir. 15. Is it, not a fact that Birt and Co. have been acting for you in Australia as your agents?— No, sir. 16. Have they not acted for Armour and Co. of America? —No; and they have not acted for Armour and Co. of Australasia (Limited). 17. Have they acted for neither company?— They have certainly not acted for Armour and Co. of Australasia (Limited). They may have acted for Armour's in America, but I do not, think so. 18. Who are the board in New Zealand of your company? —Mr. M. W. Kingdon is the other director. Mr. Kingdon and myself are the board of directors in New Zealand. 19. There are only two directors? —That is all. If you will allow me for a moment to revert to the Birt question, I will say that Birt and Co. are associated with Armour and Co. of London in the relationship of buyer and seller. Armour and Co. handle Birt's products on the London market. At present they are handling nothing but the offal, as the Imperial Government has taken over the Australian supply. That is the extent to which any Armour name is connected with Birt and Co., as their London agents. 20. All Birt and Co.'s stuff is consigned to Armour and Co. of London? —From Australia, yes. 21. Does this arrangement apply to New Zealand? —No, sir. 22. Is it not a fact that Birt and Co. own the Ocean Beach Freezing-works?— Yes, I think that is recognized to be the fact. 23. Where is the meat sent from Ocean Beach works—to Armour and Co. of London? —No, sir. If you look back you will see that I said that Armour and Co. handled Birt's products from Australia, not from New Zealand. 24. Does meat from the Ocean Beach works go away consigned to Armour and Co, of London?

No, sir.