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56. Or, rather, what have you sold to the Government? Can you give us the total value? — I cannot give you the total value, but I can give you the total purchases to date and 'the amount we have shipped. We have bought in New Zealand this year about 174,000 lambs, about 94,000 sheep, about 6,000 head of cattle, and 35 pigs. 57. What have you shipped?— The total shipments to date are 26,227 lambs, 37,900 sheep, and 17,715 quarters of beef. T would not say that these figures are exaotly right, because the New Zealand Refrigerating Company have a different system of shipping from that of other com panics. We never know how much of our stuff has actually been shipped out of their works. They ship as much of the, meat in store as they can, and they give us a pro rata allowance. We get our share of what is shipped in each steamer. Our own particular meat may not have been shipped, but we get our money for it. 58. You bought out Joseph and Sons, of Christchurch? —Yes, sir. 59. How many buyers have you to buy fat stock in New Zealand next, season? —That is hard to say; the men we have might all leave us before the Ist, day of November. I can tell you the number of men that we had last year. 60. But you havo made arrangements with them for next season? —No, we have not. They may all leave us before the season opens. Last year we started with twenty-two buyers, eighteen of them on salary and four of them on commission. During the season we dismissed six of them, five of whom were on salary and one on commission, making the present number of buyers sixteen. 61. Mr. Pearce.] Where are these buyers—in the North Island or the South Island? —We have two buyers in the North Island. The majority of the buyers are in the South Island. We have only the two buyers—one on salary and one on commission—in the North Island. 62. Are you the managing director in New Zealand for Armour and Co. (Australasia) (Limited)? —No, sir. 63. Then Mr. Kingdon is the managing director?—No, sir. 64. You said that there were only two directors : which is the managing director?— Neither. He is general manager, but not managing director. 65. Can you tell the Committee that it is your intention to expand your business in the North Island this year: you know that the season starts very soon?—T thought that you were taking evidence, not intentions. The Chairman : That is evidence. 66. Mr. Pearce.] I want to know if you are going to expand your business in the North Island this year?—T might say that possibly we will. 67. Surely with only two directors for the company and you one of them you would know of any intention to expand your business in the North Island or elsewhere for the next season? —I cannot say that I do. If three freezing-works in tho North Island that refused to freeze for Armour and Co. (Australasia) (Limited) last year should be willing to give us space this year we may increase our business. 68. Why did they refuse? —I think that you could give the answer to that. The, Chairman : It is for you to give the answer. Witness; They had no space. 69. Mr. Pearce.] It is evidently your intention to increase your business in the North Island if you can get space in the works. Can you tell us if you are going to put on any more buyers in the North Island this season?—-I do not think that we shall put on any more buyers anywhere under present conditions. We may shift them round—perhaps one in the North Island, perhaps two. Ido not know definitely. 70. Where do you freeze your meat principally?—with which company?—Wc operate at seventeen works in New Zealand. 71. Well, which is the largest—the two largest, say?— The New Zealand Refrigerating Company and the Canterbury Frozen Meat Company, I suppose. I suppose that they are the largest works in New Zealand. 72. I mean the two works at which you have killed most—the works at which Armour and Co. have chiefly operated? —Well, I should say Belfast and Islington. 73. Those are tho works of the New Zealand Refrigerating Company and the Canterbury Frozen Meat Company, both in Canterbury?— Yes, that is so. 74. Mr. Reed.] Those are two different firms, are they not?— Yes. 75. Mr. Pearce,] Do these companies give you a rebate on your freezing?—No, sir. 76. You have never arranged for a rebate on your freezing? —No. 77. Well, for a rebate on the total charges?— No. not on the total charges. 78. The managing director of the Belfast works has given evidence before this Committee that he gives you a rebate? —He gives a rebate, if you like to call it a rebate, on the number of sheep and cattle killed with him. If you kill one hundred he gives you Id. ;if you kill two hundred he gives you 2d.; and if you kill three hundred he gives you 3d. 79. Are those actual figures or just similes? —They are similes. 1 really cannot, tell you what the exact figures are. The rates depend upon whether the works handle one thousand, or two thousand, or three thousand. It is in proportion to the number of head you kill that they allow. 80. Is it not rather peculiar that you do not know the exact figures in a matter of this kind when you are one of the only two directors of the company? —I asked you the other day whether there was any of the information I could get for you. I said that I was willing to look up the information and bring it along with me. 81. I said to you then that we wanted all the information we could get, You say, that you cannot give us the actual rates? —T can give them to you in Christchurch', T will send all the

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