E. P. TURNER.j

35

1.—12.

no odour, but experiments which have been made with the treatment of white-pine with paraffinwax has shown, lam told, that any slight odour can be overcome. The puriri is a pretty quickgrowing tree. The young tree is not durable; the durable tree is from 80 to 120 years of age. 16. To Mr. Sidey.] As to the suggestion to offer a bonus for the production of creosote, I may say that we do not know how the price of creosote will come down after the war. Some time ago communications were sent to a number of gas companies to ascertain if they would make creosote, and they said they did not think it would be worth while, because of the big demand for gas-tar, but if a bonus were offered they would consider the question of the manufacture of bar, The treatment <3f soft timber with creosote greatly increases its durability. I have not gone into the question as to what bonus should be offered, but I think it might well be 2d. a gallon. The object of offering a bonus would be to get it cheaper than it could be got from Fugland. 17. To the Chairman.] lam referring to coal-tar creosote, not wood creosote. It is distilled from gas-tar. Coal-tar creosote is not largely used at the present time in New Zealand.

Tuesday, 11th February, 1919. Dr. J. Allan Thomson, Director of the Dominion Museum, further examined. (No. 18.) 1 wish to speak on the subject of the establishment of a Board of Scientific and Industrial Research, a scheme for which has been outlined by the New Zealand Institute and which is in print in the New Zealand Journal of Science and Technology. At a meeting of the Board of Governors of the Institute the President (Dr. Cockayne), Professor Easterfield, and myself were appointed to lay before the Committee certain resolutions and the scheme which the Institute has drawn up. Shortly after the war broke out it became evident that if Britain was to retain her trade there would have to be much greater application of scientific processes to industry than had previously been the case, and in 1915 the British Government started an organization to provide for research in connection with industries. They started in a small way, and only £25,000 was voted in the first year. At the same time they sent out despatches to all the colonial Governments suggesting that they should establish similar organizations, and that all these organizations should co-operate in an Imperial scheme of research. The developments were rapid in Great Britain, and in the second year (1916-17) the Government altered the scheme, set up a Department of Scientific Research, and gave it an appropriation of £1,038,000. In the meantime various oversea dominions made steps in the same direction—the Commonwealth of Australia, Canada, and South Africa. Steps were also made by the United States, France, and Italy. Practically the only one of the allied countries that had been at war with Germany that had not set up an organization was New Zealand. When the original despatch came to New Zealand it was referred to the Minister of Internal Affairs, who ordered me, as Director of the Dominion Museum, to prepare a report upon it. But apparently subsequent despatches were minuted to the Department of Agriculture or to the Education Department, and I think it has been owing to this lack of co-ordination between the three Departments that the matter has not been further advanced. Various branches of the Institute took up the matter, and a large number of bodies discussed the question and made recommendations. Later on the matter was referred by the Government to the National Efficiency Board, which asked the New Zealand Institute to prepare a scheme and to submit it to the Board. The Institue set up a committee in Wellington, and the result was the scheme which has been laid before you in the Journal. The scheme was subsequently adopted by the Board of Governors of the New Zealand Institute, and it may be considered as the well-considered opinion of the whole of the scientific men of New Zealand. There is a feature in the British Department of Science and Industry which we have incorporated, and it is the only feature of the scheme to which exception has been taken; it is found in clauses 2 (c) and 2 (/) : — 2. (c.) The Board should be a trust to administer public and other funds given for the purpose for which it is constituted. 2. (/.) An adequate sum —not less than £100,000 —should be voted by Parliament to cover the expenditure for five years, such sum to be paid to the trust and he vested by it in interest-bearing securities. This idea of a trust was started in England. The British Government set up a Department of Scientific and Industrial Research, and they made the Committee of the Privy Council, which was in charge of the Department, an Imperial trust for the encouragement of scientific and industrial research. There were several reasons for this. One reason was that scientific investigation of a difficult nature may extend over several years, and a Board could not start a proper programme and carry it out unless its finance was absolutely assured. Another reason, which is perhaps equally important, and is very important in New Zealand, is the difficulty of getting men who will carry out investigations. The University trains a number of science graduates from year to year, and some of these go further and take a National Research Scholarship and clo research work, which is generally of an industrial nature. A fair number of these students have passed through the University in recent years, but after they have done so there is no career open to them. Quite a number of them have given up science and gone in for medicine, and that is the end of their scientific investigations. The scientific men in New Zealand who are capable of carrying out researches owing to their experience in research and in technology are few in number, and are all occupied with other duties, and cannot possibly undertake the investigation of the numerous problems that are needed in New Zealand. It is necessary that