A.-—4b.

I would like, sir, to lead evidence to show what is done in Tonga. The Natives there are similar to the Samoans. The Chairman: I suppose that I cannot stop it. You are calling for information which may or may not be of use. Mr. Slipper : I think it would be of assistance. What can be told about Tonga is a matter of fact, while what is said about here is a matter of speculation for the future. (To witness :) What position did you occupy in Tonga ? —Collector of Customs. Will you give the Commissioners some idea of what was done while you were there in Tonga with regard to the question of liquor ? —Liquor is imported in Tonga and sold by firms holding licenses. A few Natives have permits to drink, which permits they had to produce before the licensee when they required liquor. And the Europeans ?—The Europeans can get all they want up to a reasonable quantity. Who controls that —the Medical or the Police Department ? —The Customs in Vavau, and the Police in Nukualofa. Not on a medical basis ?—No. How does that system work, as far as you could judge ? —My experience was that a great deal of liquor got among the Natives. Among the Natives in Tonga ? —Yes, quite a lot. We could not prove that they got it, but Europeans were procuring it for the Natives and selling it to them. Robert Joseph Carter sworn and examined. Mr. Slipper.] What is your occupation ? —Commissioner of Labour. Some time ago you and others took some interest in this matter of prohibition, did you not ? — Yes. What was done ?—A meeting was held by the heads of the Administration Departments. And what was done when the meeting was held ? —A scheme was formulated and put before the Administrator. The Chairman.'] Is that scheme in writing ? —lt is, sir, but at the present time I consider that, as we have had no reply, it is more or less a State document. The Chairman.] Exactly. There are State documents and State documents. Some State documents the Administration have no objection to .being produced, but other documents may be of private interest and should not be produced. Have you a copy of it ?—Yes. Show it to Mr. Meredith. [Statement handed to Mr. Meredith.] Mr. Meredith : I see no objection to its being read out. Mr. Slipper.] That is a copy of the report of the meeting ? —Yes. The Chairman : Do you mind reading it out, Mr. Slipper ? [Copy of statement handed to Mr. Slipper and read out, and then put in.] [Exhibit No. 9.] Mr. Slipper.] I suppose you have nothing more to add to that report, Mr. Carter ? —No, nothing; but I would like to mention, in connection with Mr. Braisby's statement about the Chinese manufacturing spirits, that I am the Protector of the Chinese, and I would like to state to the Commission that these Chinese were taught to brew by the white man. They were in the employ of the white people, and it was for the use of the white people that this liquor was required, and they put their servants on to make it. Do you know anything about how fa'amafu is made—who manipulates its processes, the white owner or his servants in that case ? —I know nothing about that. I know nothing about the manufacture of fa'amafu. William Henry Gibbs sworn in and examined. Mr. Slipper.] Your occupation is ? —A planter at Ululoloa. How long have you lived in the Territory of Samoa ?—Since the 9th April, 1920. You have been here over seven years, and you are married ? —Yes. To a European ? —No, to a local-born woman. A half-caste ? —No, a three-quarter caste. You are frequently in touch with the Natives in your occupation ? —Yes. Now, you remember the time when there was no prohibition here ? —I came here on the 9th April and prohibition came in at the end of April. To come to matters directly, what do you know about this fa'amafu, by which I mean fa'amafu exceeding 3 per cent. ? —As far as fa'amafu being made under 3 per cent., the average man who makes it does not make it under 3 per cent, to my knowledge. If it is made under 3 per cent, it is not worth drinking. But fa'amafu can by made from not only " All in One." There are many known ways to make fa'amafu —Kepler's malt-extract and malt of different brands, and by adding hops and sugar you get the same thing and a very good beer. Now, is this practice of home-brewing of fa'amafu spreading among the Natives or is it not ? —I do not think it is spreading now, but it spread at the start. Do you think that the drinking of this fa'amafu is spreading amongst the Natives ? —I could not say. What would be the remedy, in your idea ?—I favour very much the scheme read out by Captain Carter, a scheme I have had in my own mind —that of liberal permits for the whites, distributed by a Board —and I do not care what penalties are made for any abuse in giving Natives liquor. My personal opinion is that if it was a straight-out issue of prohibition or openiug the hotels I would vote prohibition ; but I am fond of my liquor, and, as a planter, I think that liquor is very necessary after

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