A.—4b.

Nobman Hursthouse Mac Donald sworn and examined. Mr. Slipper.] What is your occupation ?—I am~a surveyor. And practising your profession in Apia ? —Yes. How long have you lived in Samoa ?—For thirty-five years. And you are married ? —Yes. To a Native lady ? —Yes. And you have a number of children ? —Yes ; they are practically grown up. With respect to the question of prohibition, do you think it is a good thing for the Natives to have this present method of prohibition in existence ? —No, I do not think it is. What is your objection to it ? —The Native community did not drink to any extent whatever. Since prohibition has been carried, what is the position ? —I think the Natives manufacture what is known as fa'amqfu. Can you account for their doing so % How did they come to do that—that is, how did that habit arise ? —Well, they evidently saw the European doing it. Have you seen home brew manufactured in the different homes ?—Yes. I have manufactured it in my own home—always under 3 per cent. When it is manufactured in homes like that, do you know whether or not the Native boys are called in to assist in the manufacture of it ?—Very often, I should say. Is there any other kind of home-made liquor that can be produced in Samoa ?—Well, I think we can produce almost any liquor if we want to. Ido not, however, think it is done. Home-made wine is very often made. Is this liquor named fa'amafu made over 3 per cent. ? —Undoubtedly. The Natives have no means of testing the brew. I have seen evidence of it where they have been under the influence of liquor. It would take a lot of the 3-per-cent. liquor to do that ?■ —Yes. Was anything of this nature going on before prohibition was in existence here ? —None at all. Before prohibition the Natives did not drink. Of course, the Natives around about Apia and working on the boats might have occasionally got a drink, or when they were travelling around the island. As a matter of fact, a Native chief would sometimes be offered a nip of whisky, and it was taken as a matter of courtesy, the same as a visitor would take a nip of kava. Did the Europeans here do anything to justify the New Zealand Government in taking away their license ? —None whatever. We consider they were very badly treated. Is it fair to the old residents who came here in the early days to take away from them the liquor which they had been used to ? —Undoubtedly, no. In my own case, I cannot carry on work unless I have a certain amount. The present system of obtaining liquor is on a medical basis ? —Yes. Are you satisfied with it being put on a medical basis ? —Well, if you want my own opinion, I must say that lam not satisfied. I should like to say that Europeans of repute ought to be able to have such liquor as they want —that is, in reasonable quantities —and if they abuse that, then the privilege should be withdrawn. In the course of your profession you see a lot of the island, and consequently~see a lot of the Natives ? —Yes. Is your opinion based on your travels or based on the conditions operating in Apia ? —Well, I must say that I have not seen very much brewing amongst the Natives. Ido not go to the Native houses at all—in fact, my work does not bring me in contact with the Natives. I know as a result of mixing with the traders that the Natives are brewing their own liquor in their own districts. Have you seen drunkenness yourself amongst the Natives ? —Yes. Do you think that the present condition of affairs is in the interest of the Natives ? —No, I do not. I think if prohibition was withdrawn, and the home brewing was prohibited and we were allowed a reasonable quantity, it would be to the advantage of the Natives. Would you say that the Natives are all brewing in their villages ? —I am not speaking of the Natives. lam referring to the Natives ? —I would not say that about the Natives. Ido not think that the Natives are brewing very much. Do you think that there is a danger that they might I—Quite1 —Quite so ; it is certainly spreading. If it is spreading, it should be stopped ? —Yes. Faumuina sworn and examined. Mr. Slipper.] You are a high chief amongst the Samoans ? —Yes. And you live at the village called Lepea ? —Yes. With respect to the question of prohibition amongst the whites, do you remember the time before prohibition, was in existence ? —I remember. Was there any drinking worth while talking about among the Natives ?—I do not know. Did you ever see any ? —I did not see any Samoan take excessive drink. Are the Samoans a drinking race ?—No. Are they doing any drinking now ? —Yes. What do they drink ?—Fa'amafu and other concoctions. Are they drinking more now than they used to do ?—Drinking by the Natives has increased considerably as compared with former times. Do you know whether the Natives are doing any brewing ?—Yes. How did they come to do it ? —They have learnt the brewing of it from the Europeans.

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