A.—4b.

Did you have any trouble over the imported liquor in the olden days ?—I did not see any trouble of that kind. Has it had any effect on them ? —Yes, it has killed some of them. Mr. Meredith.] Do you wish the Samoans to have liquor ? —The Samoans should not get liquor. Are you not afraid that liquor so brought in for Europeans will be obtained by the Natives ? — That would depend upon the Europeans ; but the Samoans would cease to manufacture fa'amafu, and they would not know how to manufacture it. If the Europeans got liquor why would the Samoans cease to manufacture fa'amafu ?•—Because the European supplied the materials for the making of fa'amafu. Do you think it is wise for half-castes to be given liquor ? —I am only speaking as a Samoan, and I have nothing to say about half-castes, because they come under the status of a European. Who mixes mostly with the Natives —the half-castes or the Europeans ? —Exactly the same. Lelei Sui Ao sworn and examined. Mr. Slipper.] What are you ? —I am the Pulefaatoaga, and I live at Palauli. Were you asked to come here and give evidence ? —I was asked'to come forward and give evidence. Do you know that there is prohibition of liquor for the Europeans now ?—Yes. Do you remember the time before there was prohibition ?—Yes. Before prohibition did the chiefs have any trouble worth talking about as to drinking among the Natives ? —There was no trouble at all. Is it the same now ?—lt is quite different now. What is the trouble now ? —The trouble is caused through the manufacture of fa'amafu. Are the Natives manufacturing any of it ?--Quite a number of Samoans are making fa'amafu. Are they drinking it ? —To a great extent. Did you ever see any Samoans intoxicated or half-intoxicated ?—I have seen them very much intoxicated. Do you know whether there is very much drinking going on among the young men ?—Yes, I have seen the young men drinking fa'amafu. Is there drinking going on amongst any of the girls ? —Yes, the girls also drink it. Is that habit getting any worse or any better ?—lt is getting worse. Is there anything else from which the home-brewed liquor has been made in Samoa—that is, anything else besides fa'amafu ? —There are Samoan fruits which could be used for the manufacture of intoxicating liquor. Do you know whether any of these fruits have been used ? —No, I do not know. The great trouble is this fa'amafu ? —Yes, that is the cause of the trouble —that is, the imported material. Do they make fa'amafu from anything else than the imported stufE ? —lt is made from imported material as well as from Samoan produce. Do you know whether the Europeans had done anything wrong to justify the New Zealand Government in taking their liquor away from them ?—I do not know. What do you think is the best way out of the difficulty ?—ln my opinion, the best thing to do would be to allow the Europeans to have their proper liquor and then prohibit the manufacture of fa'amafu. The Chairman.] Do you mean the Europeans and half-castes ? —-The whites and half-castes who are of European status. Who mixes up with the Samoans mostly, the papalagis or the half-castes ?—Exactly the same. How do you think the Natives got into the ha bit of brewing this fa'amafu ? —They were taught by the whites and half-castes. Edwin William Gurr sworn and examined. Mr. Baxter.] You are, I believe, a licensed accountant ?—Yes. Have you a copy of the reports put in ? —I have the printed report dealing with finance. You refer there, Mr. Gurr, to a population of 40,231. That was taken from the annual report of the Administration for 1926 ? —Yes, it was taken from the report of the New Zealand Government to the League of Nations. And these other figures are taken from the Fiji blue-book and the estimates for Tonga ?— That is so ; the Fiji blue-book for 1925 and the Tongan Island estimates for 1926-27. You say these figures are taken from the Fijian and Samoan official records. The Tongan figures are shown as estimates : how were those figures worked out ? —They were worked out by myself on my previous knowledge of Tonga, and by asking persons who knew Tonga, such as Dr. Franzen, who have resided in Tonga recently. You are satisfied that they are fair estimates ? —That is so. Now, under the next heading, where you give the populations of the various countries, you show Fijians and Fijian labourers : what are they, Mr. Gurr ? You show Polynesians or Fijians, 36,688. Why do you show a separate heading for Fijian labourers ? —Because they are so enumerated in the blue-book of Fiji. Do you know why they are shown separately from the others ? —No, I do not know. Now, coming to the next heading, there is an item under expenditure, " Indirect Payments to Samoans, £44,912." Have you any idea what that is ? —That is the figure arrived at after deducting the amount paid to Samoans in salaries.

37