A. 4b.

clerk, and the Native officials is 16,602 dollars. For the convenience of calculations in making up this estimate I have made it at the rate which is customary here —5 dollars to the pound. That would make the total cost of the Native Department for American Samoa £3,320. The Native population of American Samoa is 8,676 ; the Native population of Western Samoa is 36,688. Taking the full cost of the Na.tive Department of Western Samoa as shown by the report —namely, £19,388 —by a calculation in proportion with the cost in Tutuila the expense to the Administration of Western Samoa of the Native Department would be £13,530 instead of £19,000. I might add that in the payment of the Native officials in Tutuila there is included the payments to the clerks and copra-weighers employed in connection with the copra contracts controlled by the Government in Tutuila. Can you suggest any way in which the expenditure of this Native Department could be reduced ? It is, I admit, an important Department ? —Yes, I can make a suggestion which I have had in my mind since I compiled this report; and this is also from my experience. I held the position of Secretary of Native Affairs in American Samoa, and combined with the functions of the office were judicial functions. I found it very inconvenient and unpleasant, and in my annual reports I suggested to the United States Government a separation of the functions—that an American Judge should be appointed to take charge of the judicial work. Your objection was that you did not think that the judicial work should be combined with the executive work ? —Yes. And the suggestion that I have to make now is that the functions of the Secretary of Native Affairs for Western Samoa should be divided, and all judicial work be under the direct control, and I might say the active control, of the Chief Judge of Samoa. The Secretary of Native Affairs is also a Commissioner of the High Court of Western Samoa ? — Yes. You suggest that, Mr. Gurr, as being a more efficient system of doing the work ; but is it likely to cut down the expenses ? —Yes ; there would not be the necessity for more to be employed in the Native Department, of the European class, than one —the Secretary of Native Affairs, and another European to assist him. He could then devote the whole of his time to the executive work of the administration of the Natives. In other words, you would get rid of some of the more expensive members of the staff ? —Yes. What about the High Court —how would that get on ?—■ I would suggest a travelling Commissioner of the High Court to travel on circuit round Western Samoa, and to hold Court in conjunction with Native Judges in different centres. That judicial system, I estimate, would be self-supporting in the way of costs and fines that may be collected. It would be more appreciated by the Samoans, for they would feel that they were having a real hand in the government by having Court sittings in their own districts. It would be suitable to the Samoan idea of government instead of the one centre. In other words, you think it would be a more efficient system, and also the result would be less expensive ? —Yes, on the whole, to the Administration. The Treasury Department comes next, Mr. Gurr : have you any remarks to make on that ?—I have no remarks to make concerning that. In drawing up this report we thought that we might show a comparison between all the Departments of Western Samoa and Fiji and Tonga, whilst we were about it. But you are satisfied that is a reasonable charge I—l1 —I am. Here also you say the auditors arrive from New Zealand annually, and it is not known by the committee if the cost of auditing Treasury accounts in the Mandated Territory is defrayed by the New Zealand Government or not. Have you ascertained yet, or not? —I have not. I asked the question once or twice, and I think I was informed Samoa paid the cost < f auditing, but I did not go to the Treasurer and ask for that. So that you consider the information is undependable. Then the Customs Department : was that prepared by you or Mr. Smyth ?—I prepared these comparisons. Mr. Smyth supplied me with many of the figures in this report. He had had more experience of these matters in Western Samoa than I had, and I might say that I confined myself chiefly to drawing up the report from the figures supplied to me. The Chairman.] Does that apply to the whole report ? Do you mean to say that most of the figures of this financial report were supplied to you ? —No, I got most of the figures from the Fiji blue-book. Who is, in fact, responsible for the figures on which the report is based ? —I would be responsible, as I placed the figures in this report from the information given to me. I want to know who is responsible for the figures which appear here ? —I am responsible. Mr. Baxter.] Now, have you got anything to say on the Customs ? —We have simply drawn comparisons of the payments. Now the Harbour Department, Mr. Gurr : do you know of any work being done outside Apia by the Harbour Department ? —I believe the lighthouses, leading-lights, light at Apolima and on the eastern end of the island, are under the care of the Harbour Department. Do you know of any other work- - any constant work —going on outside or not ? — That I am not aware of. You draw a very striking comparison in the figures shown here for Fiji and the local Harbour Department: there is a difference of £1,000, or just about. Are you sure of your figures on these items ? Yes. I have the reports I had at the time. They can be referred to. Have you any remarks to make under this heading ?- -I have no remarks myself to make. Under the heading " Department of Justice " you mention Registrar of the Court being called to fulfil other duties. Other arrangements have now been made for that Department, have they not 1— I believe so. What about the Police Department I—l1 —1 have nothing to say except what is stated in the figures here.

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