A.—4b.

Where were you then ?—I was in Auckland. So that you received no answer from the Prime Minister when you were in his presence ? —He promised that he would obtain particulars and inquire into the matter from the Minister of External Affairs, and he would communicate with me later. Is that as far as you got at that interview I—Yes.1 —Yes. It was after that you say you obtained a telegram from the Prime Minister ?—Yes. Where is that telegram ? —I think it is on the file. Can you tell us what was the gist of that telegram ? —I do not remember the exact words of the telegram, but it was a refusal to receive this delegation. That was definite ? —Yes. When you could not get the delegation heard did you make any efforts with the press in New Zealand to publish certain information ? —They would not publish any of our articles. What did you do then ? —I went and got a pamphlet printed, and that is the origin of the pamphlet which has been submitted before the Commission. We have had it that there have been a lot of delegates from outlying districts frequently coming into Apia : is that correct ? —Yes. And what is the purpose of that ?- —All waiting an answer from Mr. Nosworthy. As far as the Citizens Committee is concerned, how can they be kept in touch with the members of the Mau in the outlying districts without a delegation ? — I Their own messengers, belonging to their own people, are travelling in and out. Do the citizens ask for them to come in I—No.1 —No. They do it on their own free will—in fact they are a nuisance ?—Yes. With regard to the statement made by His Excellency the Administrator, dated 25th July, there are several statements which I would like to ask your opinion about. It says, " The present agitation, which commenced in October last year." Did it commence then ? —lt was before that. The report goes on to say, " was not initiated by the Natives, as they were not then dissatisfied " : is that correct, that the Natives were not dissatisfied ?—The Natives were dissatified two or three years ago. It further says, " One person, with one object only, was the originator of the present trouble— viz., Mr. Nelson, the wealthy half-caste merchant " : is that correct ? —No. Do you say that authoritatively as a Native yourself, or as a half-caste ? —I say that as a Samoan. Now, you have been in business in Apia for a number of years ? —Yes. The report goes on to say, referring to Mr. Nelson, " whose aim was apparently to increase his power and influence, particularly in Native matters, and so materially enhance his commercial interests." : is that correct ?• —No. It also says, " To assist him in his object Mr. Nelson utilized the services of a chief, Lago Lago, a trader in Apia with a notoriously bad record, to propagandize and foment discontent among other chiefs and induce them to believe that the Government's Native policy was wrong, and that Mr. Nelson was able to obtain for those chiefs who supported him increased powers and influence, to the detriment of the power of other chiefs " : is that correct ? —No. Mr. Nelson is also a half-caste I—Yes.1 —Yes. Have you known him to do anything to foment discontent among other chiefs ? —No. The report goes on to say, " Support from a number of Native chiefs, principally dismissed officials or police offenders, was the natural sequence of this propaganda " : is that correct ?■—No. I call your attention to the word " particularly " : are there any dismissed officials or police offenders that you know of in the movement I—l cannot say. It says, " Apart from Mr. Nelson, the European section of this committee was composed of men whose only intention was apparently to increase either their political or commercial interests " ; do you know, as a citizen of Apia, of anything to show that the other Europeans on the committee desire to do anything that would increase their commercial interests by being members of this organization ? —No. Has it increased your commercial interests, or has it decreased them I—l1 —I do not deal with Samoans in my business, as my business is a commission-agent business. Further on the report says, " He also arranged for the publication of a newspaper, the Samoa Guardian, which was established just prior to the Minister's visit. Statements calculated to appeal to the lower instincts of the Natives were circulated by the medium of this press." Have you read the Samoa Guardian from its inception ? —Yes. Did you see any statement there which would appeal to the lower instincts of the Natives ?— Not at all. You are a shareholder in the Samoa Guardian, are you not ? —I am. Then further on in the report the following appears : " Mr. Nelson's committee, through his traders and certain Natives in receipt of material benefits, gradually influenced other Natives to form committees in many villages." Do you know of any traders being in receipt of material benefits from the committee ?—I know that a warning has been given to them not to interfere with the Samoans at all—not to entice them at all. The meaning of this seems to be that certain traders of Mr. Nelson's who are getting a living from him and certain Natives are getting certain benefits out of him : do you know of any cases where Mr. Nelson's traders are influencing other chiefs ? —No. Do you know of cases of certain chiefs—their names are not mentioned—who are getting any benefits out of it by influencing the Natives ? —No. The Administrator's report goes on to say, " It may be a coincidence, but I blame Mr. Chirr, one of the committee and a well-known intriguer with the Natives, for setting up an organization here in

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