A.—4b.

And that inquiry was before Tainan, Mata'afa, and Leutele ?—Yes. Were you there before those three men ?—No. All those three men are Faipules, are they not 'Yes. But you and the others had not expressed regret after the meeting at Mulinu'u, had you ?—No. They were still in the same frame of mind as before ?—Yes. Did you hear Ale Lui give evidence ?—No. Ale Lui stated that if a man caused trouble in a village with him, that he had the right to ask for the other man to be sent from the village ? —I do not know how to answer that question as it is not clear to me. Is it the Samoan custom to send a man away from a village if he makes trouble in the village ?—Yes, it is a Samoan custom. Mr. Slipper.] You state that after the first meeting in Mulinu'u you were still in the same frame of mind—that is, when you were threatened ?—Yes. Were you afraid of the threat ?—No. Had you done anything to be threatened for ?—I had no occasion to be afraid. You thought that you had a right to bring your grievances to the authorities ?•—Yes. Now, just referring to the old Samoan custom of banishment when it was the prevailing custom, was not that time very long ago?— Yes; but only with the consent of the whole of the people of the village. They used to hold a fono in those days ? —Yes. Did they hear everything that everybody had to say ?—Yes. Then, I suppose, everybody was satisfied ? —Yes. In the old days were these banishments often made, or only fairly frequently, or only very rarely made ?—I do not know about years ago, but since I have been born it has happened very rarely. You have never heard of forty-nine in one month, have you ? —Only in the present time. And in the old days, when people were banished, were their titles taken away %—I have never known of anybody being banished and having his title taken away at the same time. Mr. Baxter.'] You have heard about the suppression of the " fine mat " custom : have you anything to say about it I—The1 —The Government is interfering with the wealth of the Samoans—that is, their wealth as shown by the number of " fine mats " in their possession. In what way do you mean that the suppression of the " fine mat " custom is interfering with the wealth of the Samoans ?—The circulation of " fine mats " and the preserving of good fellowship among the chiefs—the circulation of " fine mats " in the same way as coin. Is there anything else under that head you wish to mention ? —ln Samoa only builders of houses and boats are allowed to receive " fine mats " in payment for their work ; and what is the use of " fine mats " to them if they cannot circulate them ? Is that all I—Yes.1 —Yes. Have you anything to say about the medical tax ?—I would like that wiped out. You mean you would like the medical tax to be repealed ?—Yes. Why ? —The Samoans cannot afford to pay two taxes per annum. Anything else ?—Yes, that the hospital be financed with Government money. Do you wish to say anything about this subdivision of lands ? —That should be repealed too. Why V—Because that would break up the good feeling existing among the people. Why ?—That is the authority which the matai has over his family. By controlling the land he controls the family ?—Yes. Is there anything else ?—That is all. Have you anything else you wish to say : you have told us about the Faipule, and we do not wish to hear that over again ? —The Faipules are exercising the powers of the Chief Judge ; they adjudicate in cases and inflict penalties. Can you tell us of any cases ? —Molio'o's trial before the Faipule as described by Molio'o. Any other case ?—The Faipule are overbearing with the Samoans. How ?—Driving the people away from their homes, such as they did with me. We have heard about your banishment : is there anything else besides that, and the taking away of titles, and their sitting as Judges ?—Yes ; they stated to New Zealand that they were the representatives of Samoa, whereas they are not. Is that when the Minister was here ? —Yes. Is there anything else ? —That is all I can remember. Mr. Meredith.] Are you a member of the Mau ?—Yes. Have you seen that before [showing pamphlet, " Great Fono," to witness] ?—No, I have not seen one of these before, but I was present at the meeting. Have you been present at any other Mau Jonos since that meeting I—No, I have only attended that one. > Did you attend at the malaga of the Administrator through your village last year ? —At that time I was working on a church at Aleipata. When he arrived at Aleipata I did not attend either. Judge MacCormick.] It is last year that you are questioning him about ? —[The Interpreter explained this to the witness, who said] I was there, but when I found that our complaints were barred from coming before the Administrator we left and came down to Apia to present our complaints to the Secretary for Native Affairs. Mr. Meredith.] Did you keep away from the malaga, or the gathering at the malaga, of the Administrator this year ? —I was not there.

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