A.—4b.

The Chairman.'] You mean the whole village, do you not ?—I mean the whole family. Judge MacCormick.] That would he with regard to the Malietoa title ?—Malietoa has a say in it also. Judge MacCormick: Yes, that is what I should imagine. Mr. Baxter.'] Is there any other complaint which you wish to make ?—Another thing is that I issued three summonses against Tuilaepa. They were charged against him before the Court and he would not appear ; he said that he was a Faipule. Did this Faipule at any time go into your Court and try to interfere with your position, or did he hold a Court of his own ? —He tried cases himself and then advised me not to interfere in my own job. Is there any other Faipule you are not satisfied with ? —Other Faipules I am not satisfied with are Aiono, Toelupe, Seiuli, and Asi-Mama. Well, taking Aiono first ? —These four Faipules tried me at Mulinu'u, instead of my being tried by Mr. Griffin. Mr. Griffin was then Secretary for Native Affairs ?• —Yes. Judge MacCormick: Was he not tried by Mr. McCarthy ? Mr. Baxter : lam following that up sir. (To witness : ) Was this the same case that came before Mr. McCarthy, or was it a different case ?—The trial by the Faipule was quite recent. What do you mean by quite recent —this year or last year ?- —The same year that the Faipules returned from their trip to New Zealand ; the time that the Faipule made a law that every Samoan residing in Apia should be returned to his own village. Was there any trouble with that law ?—One day there were thirteen imprisoned, and two matais had their titles taken away and they were imprisoned. We will come to that in due course. What about these four Faipule : did they go away to New Zealand ? —Two went and two did not. Now, these four Faipule tried you, instead of Mr. Griffin ? —Mr. Griffin was present, but did not say a word. Mr. Griffin was sitting with the four Faipule ? —The four Faipule sat on Mr. Griffin's right-hand side of the table. What were you charged with at that time ? —I was charged with not having obeyed the Administrator and gone to Letogo. You did not obey the banishment order ? —I stayed down here in Matautu. Was there any sentence passed or not ? —They only said that if I did not obey the order I would be shifted to Falefa or Aleipata. I told them that I could not go and leave my wife and family. I was residing in the same district as was mentioned in the order. After the threat that I might be sent to Falefa or Aleipata I was told that I would probably be imprisoned. I heard Mr. Griffin say to Aiono that I was a hard man to deal with. Did Mr. Griffin speak in Samoan or in English ?■—He spoke in Samoan. Is there any further complaints you want to make regarding the Faipules ? —There is quite a lot to say, but I cannot remember the different things. You spoke about " fine mats." I wish to go back to the document. Is this a letter which you received from the Resident Commissioner, dated 27th July, 1923 [letter put in-—Exhibit No. 27] ? —Yes. Do you remember the first public meeting that was held in the Market Hall, on the 15th October ? —Yes. Were you or were you not at that meeting ? —Yes, I was present. What did you go to that meeting for ? —Because I had in my mind that I was dissatisfied. The reasons which you have given, were they the reasons for your being dissatisfied ?■ —Yes. There were many other matters in my mind at the same time. Why did you think it would help you with the grievances if you went to the meeting ?—Because I would get some advice from the Spirit of God at this meeting. Do you know what the meeting was called for ? The Chairman: We do not want that. We know what the meeting was called for. Mr. Baxter.] There is a lot of trouble in the country at the present time : what is the cause of this trouble ? —The dissatisfaction of the people of the Mau with the Government and protection by New Zealand. For the reasons you have been telling us %—We got together and formed the Mau. What was the cause of that trouble or the grievances you have talked about: tell the Commission the position very shortly ?—lt was from the time of the epidemic of 1918 when the Samoans were dissatisfied. Are these grievances you have been talking about the cause of the trouble or not ?—Yes, they are the cause of the formation of the Mau. Mr. Meredith.] Have you lived in Fiji ?—Yes. Were you in gaol there ?—No, I was sergeant-major there. Of what ? —The Fiji Constabulary. Do you wish the Samoans to be able to make presents of " fine mats " ?—Yes, because " fine mats " would be free from any restriction. What restriction do you object to I—l have been punished already, and have explained my punishment about " fine mats " on account of the " fine mat " law. Do you say that presents of " fine mats " are forbidden : please answer the question Yes or No ?— That is not forbidden,

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