A.—4b.

Were you here at the visit of the Minister ? —Yes. Did you remain in Apia all the time after that until you were brought before the Court i—Yes. Were you attending Mau fonos during that time? —Yes. Were you not doing any work in Apia l—Just the usual Samoan work, helping my relatives with whom 1 was staying. I. attended the fonos when there were fonos held. How many Samoans belonging to the Mau from outside of Apia were staying in Apia at this time ? —A great number ; indeed, nearly the whole of Samoa. And were they meeting every day holding fonos I—Not every day. Several times a week ? —Yes. Who was addressing these fonos ? —People were in the habit of making speeches who had authority among the Samoans, including myself. Did you address most of the meetings ? —Yes. Advising the other people to stick to the Mau ?—Yes. Did any Europeans address any of these meetings ? —No ; only Samoans. Where were these meetings held generally ?—The meetings were held in various places—■ sometimes at Lepea, sometimes at Tauese, Mulivai, and other places decided upon by the committee. Were you a member of the committee ?—Yes. What committee was that; the same as the Citizens Committee ? — No. Mr. Slipper.] When the Samoans were in Apia were they doing any harm there ?—Not one single offence. They kept the peace. Was there any talk of making trouble or rows ? —No. What was the talk ?—The talk was to preserve the peace and good-fellowship. Was that a general talk, or a talk among only a few I—lt1 —It was general amongst the committee. How did the people seem to take this talk ? —They gladly obeyed. Was there any shortage of food, or any other trouble like that ?—No. Was there any illness or epidemic ? —No. Mr. Baxter.] What is your rank, fa'a-Samoa ?—A leading orator of Samoa. We have heard some talk about the cancellation of " fine mats " ? —ln my opinion, the law is not a proper law in the country. We should have freedom in regard to " fine mats." Any other reasons ? —lt is " fine mats " that preserve good feeling amongst Samoans. There have also been some remarks about the medical tax : we should also like to know what you think about that ? —ln my opinion the law about the medical tax should be rescinded. We should only pay the ordinary poll-tax, as in former times —£1 4s. for a matai, and £1 for a taulealea — and not have a medical tax. We have also been told about a proposed scheme for the division of Samoan land amongst the Samoan people, giving each a portion of land : have you anything to say about that ? —ln my opinion, the matais should control the Samoan lands, and allocate a certain portion of the land to the other members of the family, as in former times. Why do you consider the matais should retain control of the land ? —Because he is the controller of the family. Do you mean that he will be unable to control the family if he does not control the land ? —Yes. About the Faipule ; is there anything you wish to tell the Commission about the Fono of Faipule ? —There should be no Fono of Faipule now, as it causes considerable trouble amongst the Samoans through having that body. In what way has the Fono of Faipule caused considerable trouble among the Samoans ?—ln some instances that is the reason for the dissatisfaction of to-day. I want particular instances ? —Because when the district has matters to be brought forward by the Faipule and asks the Faipule to bring forward those matters the Faipule fails to do so. Can you tell us an instance when that has happened in a district you have been in at the time ? —That was done by the Faipule of my own district. What was his name ? —Mata'afa. What was it that he refused to bring forward ? —Water-supply matters for villages in the district. Is there anything else you have got against the Faipule ?—No. How does a man get into the Fono of Faipule and become a Faipule ?—Appointment by the Administrator. Through the district, or do they not have any say ? —No ; the Administrator appoints the person. In the Fa'a-Samoa way, who would appoint the Faipule ?—The district would appoint the Faipule. Is there anything you want to tell us about any particular Faipule ?—No ; I only wish to give evidence as regards the Faipule of my own district. I have reason to believe there are Faipule in other districts who do the same thing. Apart from the water-supply question, is there anything else ? —That is all. Do you remember the meeting that was held here in the Market Hall at the end of last year : were you at that meeting or not ? —No, I was not present. You have told us some of the grievances against the medical tax : how long have you had those grievances ? —Right from the coming into force of the tax. How long have you had this grievance about the " fine mats " ? —As soon as the law was passed I felt dissatisfaction against it. And your other grievances : have you had them one year or two years ?—Many years. It is four or five years since I commenced to be dissatisfied. I think you came straight here from gaol ? —Yes.

125