1.—13 A,

Did the manager who went into business on his own cut prices ?—He was forced to. Which came first ? —Actually the manager started in business first, and immediately he started this was the gun that was fired. Mr. O'Leary.] The managers were granted separate unions or Arbitration ? — No, not in Christchurch. I cannot say about Wellington. I am informed that the Arbitration Court permitted the creation of a separate award for shopmanagers. —I do not know about Wellington. lam informed that it applied in Christchurch. That is all right, but the fact remains, Mr. 0 Leary, that the shop-managers are at present brought in under the scope of the Grocers' Assistants' award in Wellington and Christchurch. There has been a lot of talking. I was up here last week, but I was not able to be here yesterday. You have to look at the thing from a reasonable point of view. Mr. Wilkinson mentioned about flour ; whether or not the majority of people did not buy flour in bags, but you know as well as I do. One of my colleagues was representing country storekeepers and was unable to be here to-day. The whole point is that the prices and the whole of the advertising in the newspapers goes out into the country districts, and when the people in the country see the price for flour or any other line to be less than their storekeeper is charging them, they think he is " having them," but it is not so at all. There is no doubt that many suburban storekeepers have gone out of business it is a wonder that many of them have had the capital to remain in as long as they have. There is 110 doubt, also, that if the war continues much longer many more will go out of business. In Christchurch there are grocers' shops empty and nobody has gone into them. Mr. Wilkinson.] Does the witness say that small quantities of flour packed in paper bags would be cheaper than flour in the original bag I—Yes,1 —Yes, that is the case. I think the bulk would be cheaper ?—You can practically buy a 7 lb. bag of flour to-day at the same rate as you could buy a 50 lb. bag before. Mr. Barrott: There is only one other witness on the grocery side. The Chairman : There are other gentlemen, but I told them there was a chance of their being heard. They are representing the New Zealand biscuit and confectionery manufacturers. I might say that the Committee has applied for leave to sit this afternoon, so you will have to come back after lunch. We would not be able to complete with you before 1 p.m.

Evidence presented by Herbert J. M. Barley, of Wellington, Grocer, representing Wellington Master Grocers' Association. The Master Grocers' Association supports the amendment to the Commercial Trusts Act. Some grocers have had to give up business through the unfair competition and the need for some protection." Before the advent of the chain and departmental stores the various businesses were in the hands of industrious men who were supporting families, and the bigger shops were employing married men at a rate of pay that enabled them to keep themselves and their families. Price-cutting by chain stores has driven a lot out of business and has forced those still carrying on to put assistants off. The rapid progress made by chain stores is based on unfair trading and crushing out competition. The chain shops do not make a profit, but the companies running them make money by getting discounts on big orders which the small traders cannot get. Managers engaged 011 profit-sharing cannot make profits in the shops because of the price-cutting. The system creates untold friction in the trade and prevents grocers from employing married men assistants or from making a reasonable living. n , , - In five years price-cutting stores reduced grocers assistants m Riddiford Street alone from twenty-nine to eighteen, meaning reduction in wives supported from fifteen to seven, and children from twenty-nine to five. Most of those put out were forced on relief. I also have a list of grocers, managers, assistants, wives, children, and dependants supported by the trade in Riddiford Street before the advent of these stores.

Grocers, Managers, Assistants, Wives, Children, and Dependants supported by the Trade in Riddiford Street, Wellington South, before the advent of the Chain Stores.

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Grocers. Managers. Assistants. Wives. Children. j Aged Parents. Campbells .. •• 1 1 ® Bertenshaw and Horn . . <f j .. .. .. 2 •? 9 5 Their assistants • • • ■ • • • • £ Porters .. •• •• 1 • • "J , 'o Wylies 1 • • I Reduction Stores • . • • i • ■ * . ', Phillips ...... 1 • • * Jennings . • • • • 1 • ■ 0 ' j ' o Barleys . • ■ • • • 1 ■ •" 9 1 29 13 29 2