B.—3b

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3. Mr. Wardell.] What is your age ? —I was eighteen on the 14th June. 4. Mr. Harley.] Where are you living now ?— At Moorhouse's, milkman, Bronte Street, Nelson. 5. How many cells were there at the Orphanage downstairs?— Two underneath the stairs. There was one right underneath the stairs and one at the side of it. [Positions indicated on plan.] 6. Mr. Wardell.] Does this mean that there was one cell facing the garden and one inside that ? —Yes. One facing the garden, and the other right under the stairs. 7. Mr. Bush.] Was there any window?— Not in the one right under the stairs. 8. Mr. Harley.] Have you been in the cells ?—Yes; in that facing the garden. 9. Is there any light in the cell under the stairs?— There is a space of about 4in. at the top of the door, through which light from the window of the cell facing the garden is admitted. 10. Mr. Wardell.] You were never shut up in the inner cell ?—I was never confined there. 11. Mr. Harley.] Have you ever seen boys in that cell?—I have seen Richard Sheehan there. 12. Could a boy stand upright in it ?—He could at one end, but not at the other. 13. You understand that you are not to refer to matters beyond five years ago. Did you see Sheehan there within the last five years ?—Yes. 14. Mr. Bush.] Perhaps you could give the date, or say how long it was before you left ? —I could not exactly say. 15. You are sure it was within five years?— Yes. 16. Mr. Harley.] You say you were in the other cell. What had you been doing to be put in there ? —They said I was going to run away, but I had no intention of doing so. 17. How long were you kept there ?—A week. 18. Were you let out at all during that week, day or night ?—No. 19. Mr. Bush.] Not even to Mass ?—No. 20. Mr. Wardell.] Which Brother was in charge of you ?—Brother Finian. 21. Mr. Harley.] Was there anything to sit on ?—There was no chair ; there was a mattress there all day ? 22. Were you punished in any other way during that week?— Yes; I was flogged with a supplejack with my clothes off. 23. Mr. Wardell.] On what part of your body ?—On my behind. 24. By whom ?—Brother Wibertus. 25. Mr. Harley.] How much of your clothes was off?—l had my trousers off. 26. Is that the only time you were thrashed in that fashion ? —Yes. 27. Mr. Wardell.] I should like to get the date fixed approximately. You have left the school two years and a half. How long was it before that ?—lt must have been six or eight months after I went there. 28. It is about six years since you went there?—Tfc may have been a year after I went. [At this stage Mr. Pope, on referring to the books of the Department, stated that Stanbridge was admitted to the School in April, 1894.] 29. Mr. Harley.] Did you know a boy named John Lane at the school ? —Yes. 30. Did you ever see Brother Wibertus do anything to him ?—I saw him kick Lane up against a door and cut hia head open. 31. Mr. Fell: This incident was stated by another witness, Lane's brother, to have occurred six years ago. The occurrence has already been admitted. 32. Mr. Harley.] How long ago was this ?—About a year —perhaps more ; not much more— before I left. 33. What took place ?—I think they got a doctor and said Lane fell on a stone. 34. How was the food while you were there—good or bad?— Bad. 35. You have read in the newspapers descriptions given in evidence of the food at the School during the past two years. Was it the same when you were there ? —Yes. 36. Did you do any hill-work during the latter part of the time you were there?— Yes. 37. Was it easy or hard?— Hard. 38. How many times a day have you been up?— Four times. 39. Mr. Wardell.] From the School to the top ?—Yes. 40. Mr. Harley.] What happened to those who did not do all their trip ?—They were punished with the supplejack, and made to go without their tea. 41. Did you know a boy named Eyan there ?—Yes. 42. What condition of mind was he in ? —Mad ; he is a lunatic. He is there now. 43. How was Eyan treated there ?—Badly. They punished him all sorts of ways. At dinnertime I have seen him made to kneel on the floor, and go without his dinner, for being late for dinner. 44. Anything else ?—That is all I can remember. 45. Were there fires in the class-rooms in your time?— No. 46. Used you to bathe in the winter in your time ?—No. 47. Were your socks and stockings washed? —Very seldom, 48. What were your shirts made of ?—A sort of canvas ; the same as they are now. 49. Did you ever see any little boys washed in the creek during the last five years ?—Yes, for dirtying themselves. I have seen them taken there in winter. 50. Were they punished otherwise?— Yes; I have seen them hammered on the naked skin with a supplejack by Brother Wibertus. 51. Mr. Bush.] With regard to the boy who was kicked against the wall and had his head cut open : was there any blood ?—Yes; I saw it. 52. Mr. Wardell] Who dressed the wound ?—Dr. Duff. 53. Mr. Bush.] Did you know of any other boy being put in the cell under the stairs?— Speed was in there.