1. H. POPE.]

81

Or.— 5.

Maori as it is now. Ido not think it would be well to take it up in school. lam sure it would interfere injuriously with the teaching of English. 63. We found in Te Aute some three students who are learning French —students going up for matriculation : would it not be better to have those three boys go in for Maori instead of French? Would it not be better for a Maori boy to come up for Maori as an English boy would come up in English ?—I dare say the ordinary Maori boy would be thankful for the opportunity. I do not think it would be wise to let him have it; but it might be. 64. Do you know whether it is a fact that in one year six boys who had been at Te Aute School died ?—I think that is very possible; but it must have been a considerable time ago. The health of Te Aute has greatly improved. 65. Can you account for it in any way?—l think the surroundings of Te Aute have been gradually improved. Ido not think anything of the kind would take place there now, unless some extraordinary general epidemic should visit the district. 66. With respect to book-keepiug—whatever may be the value of book-keeping now—bookkeeping should not be thought of as a subject in school?— Just so; it was an extra subject. 67. Mr. Eliott.] Do you know Reweti Kohere, of Te Rau College, Gisborne?—Yes. 68. He gave us some evidence which impressed me very much. If you know him I would like to get your opinion on some of his statements. Do you think he is qualified to give a thoughtful answer? He seemed to me to be a thoughtful man, and to have studied the question. I will read a few extracts from his evidence. He said, "He thought everyone now agreed that there should be a purely Maori secondary school, and Te Aute was the only one, he believed, in the colony. It should never be done away with. It was a school where the best Maori intellect could be developed and directed. He thought it stood as a remarkable monument of the strides made by a savage race in the intellectual world." Do you agree with that? —Yes, to a large extent. 69. He also said that if it had not been for Te Aute these strides would not have been made?— That is a rather venturesome statement. 70. He also said, " He thought the most promising boys should receive secondary education and be helped as much as possible to reach the university colleges." How far will you go with him in that? —If the material is there, by all means let it be cultivated. 71. He said be believed, however, that the bulk of the boys who went to Te Aute should not receive secondary education ?—I could not say that, seeing that bulk ought to mean 60 or 70 per cent. 72. He goes on, " It would be beneficial to the school if another department were added to the scholastic side, in the form of industrial instruction, agricultural, and pastoral. The Te Aute authorities objected to any addition of the kind, and said such instruction should be given in a separate institution." Could not an agricultural department be grafted on to Hie present school? --It has often occurred to me that something might be done in the way of having a farm in connection with Te Aute, but I have never seen my way to formulate anything with respect to it. 73. Have you found a tendency on the part of Te Aute boys to go back to the communistic life of the pas after leaving the school, or do they separate themselves and live as pakehas ?—Separation has been brought about in the case of boys getting appointments, and then they have become virtually pakehas. 74. Would you encourage that?—lf I were a Maori and know what I know I would cling to my race. Also, I would help the Maori to do the same, if possible. 75. As to the teaching of trades, we have had some objection to that on the ground that it takes the boys away from their own people, and that they lead town lives, which is not beneficial to them. Do you think the teaching of trades should be stopped on that account?—No; I do not think so. I think the difficulty now referred to would not occur very often. The technical scholarships given by the Department last for two years only. That kind of danger was foreseen and provided against, and I do not think it occurs now. 76. Do you not think that the danger would be got over if the technical education was principally devoted to farming—to agricultural and pastoral pursuits—for which the Maori is supposed to be best fitted ? —I think the result would be about the same. If an agricultural scholarship were given, say, for two years only, I think the scholar might go back to his people without harm of any kind. 77. In regard to the teaching at Te Aute College, we are told that the main aim is matriculation for the University: we are also told that the Maori boys educated there have some difficulty in finding employment. Would it not be better if they went up for the Civil Service Examinations, and thus get a chance of entering the public service? That seems to be lost sight of at Te Aute altogether?— This kind of suggestion has never come under my notice before, and I do not care to give an answer off-hand ; but I think it is worth considering. 78. It would facilitate the employment of the boys?— Yes; certainly. 79. You said it was not necessary to apologize for Mr. Thornton, but in your opinion does his influence and personality have a great effect on the boys, as to tone and demeanour, for good?— My knowledge of Mr. Thornton's work at Te Aute would make me speak strongly in his favour, if this were necessary; would make me think he has done a great deal of first-class work there. In respect to impressing the boys, it has always seemed to me that they look up to him as a kind of father, and a remarkably good kind, too. 80. We have heard all sorts of things as to what Archdeacon Williams has done—that his heart and soul are in the school: is this correct?—l do not doubt it. 81. Did you inspect the Hukarere Girls' School?— Yes. 82. Does the education given at that school benefit the girls in domestic life? —Yes; most decidedly.

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