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RKPOBT OK PROCBBDINQB Of III'•: CONFERENCE

New Zealand ami Australian points of view we- have' nothing to , plain of. In our law we- have provided what the- minimum shall be, and Australia will do the same. Sm WILLIAM LYNE ; We propose to do it. fin CHAIRMAN : You are on a different basis. Mi:. BELCHER: II we could have the principle ~t a minimum it will appl_ to officers, seamen, firemen, and everybody else, and 1 think you have- what you want. Mu. PEMBROKE: As an underwriter, 1 prefer giving hand lo the Board of 'Trade. Tin CHAIRMAN : That would be- our minimum si a inlaid, whatever it is. Mr. NORMAN HILL : Is not the principle which we accept, llie principle that we have laid down by the Imperial Parliament, that a vessel is anseaworthj if not efficiently manned? Thk CHAIRMAN : That is it. Mil. NORMAN HILL: 'That is the only principle. If you lay down rules and instructions which exceed the necessity of seaworthiness, we can challenge them. Thk CHAIRMAN : The minimum standard is that required by seaworthiness. Mn. NORMAN HILL: The test is seaworthiness. The test is not by scale. Tin: CHAIRMAN : I agree. That is why I object to the word " scale." Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Rut in "basis." Thk CHAIRMAN : A fixed number is a different thing, but the standard means the standard of seaworthiness. Sm WILLIAM LYNE: To come really to practically bedrock, suppose we carry the provision which is in this Rill which I have be-fore me now. which mentions 3i tons as tin- minimum. If this resolution agreeing to the principle is carried, might I ask this—l do not know whether you can absolutely answer is that likely to be used as a reason for not agreeing to our Bill ? Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH : Your Bill only applies to Australian ships. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : I want a minimum, so far as our powers go. If we put in a minimum of 3J tons, will that be objected to when the Act is passed Thk CHAIRMAN : Certainly not. You can imposeany conditions you like for your own trade. Snt WiLLIAM LYNE: 1 wish to see myself safe in this matter, that is all. I want to be able to say when I am dealing with this Bill, as I shall have to deal with it if I am in the Government at the time, that if this provision is put in, it will not be any obstacle to the reception of the Bill by the Imperial (loverinnent. Tin CHAIRMAN : Speaking for myself, I should certainly not regard it as an obstacle'. The only thing I am contending for is that each Colony and the Imperial Government should fix their own basis, as it wore. Sin WILLIAM LYNE: I quite agree with you in t hat. 'Thk CHAIRMAN: Sir .Joseph Ward has the New Zealand Rill. 'They have- one basis, you suggest another, and we have se-l up a third, hut we are all agreed thai there- ought to be- some minimum standard of manning. That is the principle upon which we arc all agreed. Sin WILLIAM LYNE : W,- an- affirming a principle. II this resolution, which is an open one to some extent. is carried, is it likely thai your minimum would be adhered to at V 2 tons ? Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : We could not say that. Mr. CON: How far are you going to make- theAiistralian conditions apply ?

Sir WILLIAM LYNE : As far as we can. The CHAIRMAN : Captain Chalmers points out a very important consideration that we shall have to depart from the scale altogether if liquid fuel comes m : and it is coming in .erj rapidly. Hon. W. \l. HUGHES: Or improvement in appliances ? Tin. CHAIRMAN : We can only affirm the principle. There must In- certain elasticity io ini-i-t ne-w conditions, and the great variety of conditions which have arisen in t he- e onsli-in t ion of vessels. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: It is a well-known fact that in some ships men can shovel o tons easier than in other ships they can lire \>' tolls. We had evidence ol that before the Commission. In some of our ships they are doing •'• tons, and in others -2. 2 tons. The position of the bunkers, and their condition, whether they an- lull or not, the kind of machinery, and so on. whether the ashes are 1 brown out by an ejector or whether thev have to haul them up — everything tells. Mu. NORMAN HILL: Cannot we only affirm the principle that efficient manning is one of the essentials of seaworthiness. Sm WILLIAM LYNE: If we do that, 1 want it to he clearly understood that that does not interfere with our proposal to make a scale. The CHAIRMAN : Oh, certainly mu. Mu. NORMAN HILL : The only thing we do hope i that Sir William will consider the expediency, lalhei than putting it inlo a schedule of an Act of Parliament. •it adopting the course our Government has adopted, and put it in as instructions to their detaining officers, so that those- instructions can be reconsidered and any ship judged on its merits to meet the ease which Mr. Hughes has put. If your officers were satisfied that because of the mechanical assistance given to the men they could work more easily 5 tons on ship A than 3 tons on ship B, ship A should get the benefit of having adopted those mechanical contrivances. If instead of putting it into a schedule of an Act of Parliament vou adopt our principle and give it as instructions to the detaining officers, you will then be in a position to recon sider them. Siu WILLIAM LYNE: 1 think we should very likely do it by a regulation under the Act in that way. Mn. NORMAN HILL: If vou would, it would help. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: We shall have- some sort, of Committee, or experts. Hon. DUGALD 'THOMSON : I think we might adopt your proposal. The CHAIRMAN : Allowing each Colony to take its own basis, and alter it from time to time? Bra WILLIAM LYNE: On that understanding —so long as it is clearly understood—l shall not press against it. 'Thk CHAIRMAN : Would you mind accepting il in this form, Mr. Hughes? '"That this Conference ap "proves ol the principle of a minimum standard ..I "manning applicable to all United Kingdom, Australian, "and New Zealand ships." Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Yes: I will am,-ml mm, to suit that. Mn. HAVELOCK WILBON : Could we have n made clear that that manning means the stokehold as well as the deck ! Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Oh. Il does. Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON : It is all very well for Mr. Hughes to say it does, hut 1 have had a good deal 1., say on this question in the Imperial Parliament, and »e have never got that Far yet, to say it will apply to the stokehold. CapTAIM CHALMERS: It does apply to the stokehold.